# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 641
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12805 "2017-10-24T21:30:58Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Jeff Flake just [scorched the Earth](http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2017/10/24/sen-jeff-flake-senate-speech-full-text/794958001/) of the GOP and the president. > \* > “Mr. President, I rise today to say: Enough. We must dedicate ourselves to making sure that the anomalous never becomes normal. With respect and humility, I must say that we have fooled ourselves for long enough that a pivot to governing is right around the corner, a return to civility and stability right behind it. We know better than that. By now, we all know better than that.” > > “Now, I am aware that more politically savvy people than I caution against such talk. I am aware that a segment of my party believes that anything short of complete and unquestioning loyalty to a president who belongs to my party is unacceptable and suspect.”\* Too bad that was all much, much too complicated for Trump or his base to even remotely understand. I guess it’s more just an appeal to other congresspeople[\*](https://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/dictionary/election-day-special-are-senators-congressmen/) to follow suit. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12806 "2017-10-24T21:39:30Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > :eek: > :eek::eek: > > Wow. Now THAT is a speech. Big words, though. Trump not sure if he should feel insulted or not. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12807 "2017-10-24T21:57:20Z")
Stirring words. Needed to be said, it was good to hear them, and it’s sad that they will amount to absolutely jack shit. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12808 "2017-10-24T21:58:44Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > He could be running for re-election if he wanted to though. He’s only 55. He’s chosen to fight Trump instead. Choosing to “fight Trump” through _retirement_ is a pretty passive way of going about things. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a pretty good speech. But you combine that speech with “And so I’m going to run for reelection and prevent some brain-dead Trumpbot from filling my critical seat and fucking things up even worse, and if I lose the primary then so be it” or “And so I’m going to work with Democrats and other Senators of reason to provide some real accountability from this Administration for as long as I hold my seat” or "And if Trump wants any votes from me on his priorities then he better shape up and stop acting like a lizard man in the following respects . . . " or others. He’s got power right now, how about he uses it for what he says it needs to be used for? Denouncing stuff then giving up is not so impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12809 "2017-10-24T21:59:29Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Stirring words. Needed to be said, it was good to hear them, and it’s sad that they will amount to absolutely jack shit. A journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12810 "2017-10-24T22:21:14Z")
Sen Risch®, on CNN, said it’s the job of the press to criticize the President, not his. Sure didn’t seem to be his opinion when Obama was in office. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12811 "2017-10-24T22:36:33Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Sen Risch(R), on CNN, said it’s the job of the press to criticize the President, not his. > Sure didn’t seem to be his opinion when Obama was in office. Rep. Hunter just said the same thing. And he says that Trump is a good role model for children, especially the way he conducts business. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12812 "2017-10-24T22:38:13Z")
[quote=“BigT, post:12805, topic:774070”] Too bad that was all much, much too complicated for Trump or his base to even remotely understand. I guess it’s more just an appeal to other congresspeople[li](https://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/dictionary/election-day-special-are-senators-congressmen/) to follow suit.[/li][/QUOTE] I doubt if FOX News will report it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12813 "2017-10-24T22:41:40Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I doubt if FOX News will report it. They’re reporting that Flake is using “[Leftist Strategy](http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/10/24/greg-gutfeld-jeff-flake-trump-speech-he-shouldnt-invoke-children-grandchildren)” (whatever that means). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12814 "2017-10-24T22:55:31Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > They’re reporting that Flake is using “[Leftist Strategy](http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/10/24/greg-gutfeld-jeff-flake-trump-speech-he-shouldnt-invoke-children-grandchildren)” (whatever that means). This: > [@](#): > > Gutfeld said that Flake is likely a good person but that he irritated him by invoking “our children and grandchildren” when talking about opposing Trump’s tone and governing style. > > “That’s straight out of the climate change [talk] from the left,” he said. Just remember to call them out on it if they invoke their own spawn. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12815 "2017-10-24T23:01:09Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > They’re reporting that Flake is using “[Leftist Strategy](http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/10/24/greg-gutfeld-jeff-flake-trump-speech-he-shouldnt-invoke-children-grandchildren)” (whatever that means). That article appears to be written for people with a sub-optimal grasp of things: > [@](#): > > “Basically what [Flake] is saying is 'if you don’t do what [I’m] doing, you’re complicit - you’re guilty if you support Trump,” Gutfeld said. That’s exactly what he’s saying, yes. I guess they had to include it tho since they’re clearly trying to frame it to present Sen. Flake as an enemy for their readers to vilify. > [@](#): > > Gutfeld estimated that Flake’s decision to retire was predetermined before his remarks. Ya fucking think? :rolleyes: I’m sure it was sinister the way he decided to do something and then told everyone about his decision, as opposed to the Trumpian way of running at the mouth and then not doing anything. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12816 "2017-10-24T23:02:49Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Jeff Flake just [scorched the Earth](http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2017/10/24/sen-jeff-flake-senate-speech-full-text/794958001/) of the GOP and the president. > \* > “Mr. President, I rise today to say: Enough. We must dedicate ourselves to making sure that the anomalous never becomes normal. With respect and humility, I must say that we have fooled ourselves for long enough that a pivot to governing is right around the corner, a return to civility and stability right behind it. We know better than that. By now, we all know better than that.” > > “Now, I am aware that more politically savvy people than I caution against such talk. I am aware that a segment of my party believes that anything short of complete and unquestioning loyalty to a president who belongs to my party is unacceptable and suspect.”\* > [@](#): > > Regret, because of the state of our disunion, regret because of the disrepair and destructiveness of our politics, regret because of the indecency of our discourse, **regret because of the coarseness of our leadership,** regret for the compromise of our moral authority, and by our — all of our — complicity in this alarming and dangerous state of affairs. Bolded what I thought will get the ornangutan’s ears burning more than anything. > [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > “And so I’m going to run for reelection and prevent some brain-dead Trumpbot from filling my critical seat and fucking things up even worse, **and if I lose the primary then so be it** ”. My bolding is what I would guess is the reason why Flake sees the futility of trying anything other than retirement. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12817 "2017-10-24T23:07:19Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > My bolding is what I would guess is the reason why Flake sees the futility of trying anything other than retirement. So what if he loses the primary? How is that worse than just quitting, which is what he’s doing now? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12818 "2017-10-24T23:14:13Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > So what if he loses the primary? How is that worse than just quitting, which is what he’s doing now? Peace with honor. If he loses the primary, then he a loser and will be branded as such; anathema for a politician. If he just doesn’t run, he can claim personal reasons to ‘spend more time with (my) family’. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12819 "2017-10-24T23:14:36Z")
I’m glad Sens. Flake and Corker have spoken; I’d rather they speak than stay silent. But it would be a lot more of an impact if senators and congressmen with less to lose would speak out. It’s possible that they’re laying the groundwork and planting the seed for revolt if the party or the president stumbles next year, but there’s a long way to go between now and then. As it stands now, Bannon’s cleansing of the Republican party is moving forward. That, ultimately, is what really matters. Flake and Corker lost because their party, their donors, and their voters no longer believe they’re “conservative” enough. Or maybe, as Sen. Flake said, maybe they’re just not “angry” enough, not vicious enough. There is no place for personal principle and political independence in the Republican party. If they don’t support the racial nationalism that is spreading like wildfire throughout the party, then they’re out. The biggest take-away from today’s circus is that it proves something I’ve been saying for a while. The Republican party today is like the German conservative party in 1932-33. After believing they could use and control the radicals within their party to win elections, they’ve now discovered how dead wrong they were. There is no controlling these extremists. Absolutely none. This is the folly that Republicans are making, believing that they can vote for an authoritarian political absolutist (Tea Party, Bannon, etc) and later push back when they go too far. No, it doesn’t work that way. When someone stands up to an authoritarian, they become an enemy. Political party and voting record matters none. Corker was an active supporter of Trump when people were afraid to ally with him, and where is he now? Sen. Flake didn’t support him but he’s voted with him on 85-90% of the votes, and where is he now? McConnell helped Trump get his one legislative accomplishment in confirming Neil Gorsuch, and Bannon (probably with Trump’s blessing) is now starting an insurgency against him. This is what conservative legislators are finding out today. This is what conservative voters will find out at some point in the future, but it might not be so easy to dissent then. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12820 "2017-10-24T23:21:03Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Peace with honor. If he loses the primary, then he a loser and will be branded as such; anathema for a politician. If he just doesn’t run, he can claim personal reasons to ‘spend more time with (my) family’. Dang - wish I returned here sooner to say that. Ultimately the same result for Flake, regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12821 "2017-10-24T23:32:43Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12822 "2017-10-24T23:36:32Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Choosing to “fight Trump” through _retirement_ is a pretty passive way of going about things. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a pretty good speech. But you combine that speech with > > “And so I’m going to run for reelection and prevent some brain-dead Trumpbot from filling my critical seat and fucking things up even worse, and if I lose the primary then so be it” > > or > > “And so I’m going to work with Democrats and other Senators of reason to provide some real accountability from this Administration for as long as I hold my seat” > > or > > "And if Trump wants any votes from me on his priorities then he better shape up and stop acting like a lizard man in the following respects . . . " > > or others. He’s got power right now, how about he uses it for what he says it needs to be used for? Denouncing stuff then giving up is not so impressive. His entire diatribe isn’t just about Trump, but the Republican Party as a whole for enabling the shitgibbon-in-chief. At some point, you have to decide whether your own soul is worth the stains being thrown upon it by those you ally yourself with. The GOP has left many of these Congresscritters behind (even if I think many of them are shitgibbons themselves). ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12823 "2017-10-25T00:41:34Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > His entire diatribe isn’t just about Trump, but the Republican Party as a whole for enabling the shitgibbon-in-chief. At some point, you have to decide whether your own soul is worth the stains being thrown upon it by those you ally yourself with. The GOP has left many of these Congresscritters behind (even if I think many of them are shitgibbons themselves). Stains? STAINS? What do they care about that? The whole point is to keep that sweet, sweet cash rolling in. That’s the whole, entire point for most of them. Public service is for suckers and those “other guys”. They are in it for the money, and if they have to fellate a neo-nazi to get it, then down on their knees they will go. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/12824 "2017-10-25T01:04:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > This:Just remember to call them out on it if they invoke their own spawn. It doesn’t matter. Nothing matters. This is the Gish Gallop GOP. They throw so much shit at so many fans, there’s no way to get anyone who is in their thrall to pay attention to the 50 million rebuttals and accompanying fact-correction. If you go directly to the politician who said it, he’ll ignore it or say he never said it. Only something very, very bad will correct the course, because only something very, very bad can break the spell. I have no idea what that could be, but it’s likely that the only thing worse would not be correcting our course, and continuing down the road of alternate facts and alternate reality. I’m not at all sure there is a way out of this. With the technology to make it look and sound like anyone is saying anything, we are entering a post-fact world, and we may never recover. You can’t run a world using facts you LIKE. The Drake equation never allowed for this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=640) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=642)