# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 699
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13965 "2017-12-01T19:42:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It was a male. Well PM May \*has \*been working on her Bing Crosby for the Queen’s holiday party. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13966 "2017-12-01T19:45:47Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Prime Minister May possibly?? 🆒 Today on Democracy Now I heard that the CFSG might “Pick Cotton” (i.e. Tom Cotton) for new Secretary of State. So if Theresa is thinking of doing so instead the headline could be “Prime Minister May possibly Pick Cotton”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13967 "2017-12-01T20:35:27Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Prime Minister May possibly?? 🆒 I didn’t follow the semantics of that comment and wondered what she may do. I am sad to announce that I’m not joking. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13968 "2017-12-03T09:12:25Z")
Looks like that piece of trash we have as president is getting backed more and more into a corner and even finally admitted this morning that he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13969 "2017-12-03T10:55:07Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Looks like that piece of trash we have as president is getting backed more and more into a corner and even finally admitted this morning that he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI. Reminder: The only (legal) way to get rid of a President is impeachment, to do that you need some kind of majority in House and Senate: Good luck with that. You all seem to labor under the idea that the man can be embarrassed into resigning: Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13970 "2017-12-03T12:39:27Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Reminder: The only (legal) way to get rid of a President is impeachment, to do that you need some kind of majority in House and Senate: Good luck with that. Not true. There’s also the 25th Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13971 "2017-12-03T13:21:23Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > \You all seem to labor under the idea that the man can be embarrassed into resigning: Good luck with that. I’ll agree with that. It’s not possible to embarrass him. He has no shame. No humility. He’ll never believe that half the country despises him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13972 "2017-12-03T14:16:13Z")
> [@Cabbage](#): > > Not true. There’s also the 25th Amendment. I’ve skimmed the wikipedia page on the subject; Am I correct in thinking that is a distinction without difference? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13973 "2017-12-03T14:33:15Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > I’ve skimmed the wikipedia page on the subject; Am I correct in thinking that is a distinction without difference? No, they’re very different. Section 25 is for mental or physical incapacity, leading to removal of presidential responsibilities. Impeachment is for pretty much whatever Congress wants it to be for, and MAY lead to removal of the president (e.g., Nixon, surely if he hadn’t resigned first), or it may not (e.g., Clinton). ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13974 "2017-12-03T14:41:06Z")
If someone has a stroke in office and becomes incapacitated, that’s when the 25th comes into play. There would be hell to pay if Generals Kelly and Mattis huddled with all the other cabinet and then decided they couldn’t work with him anymore and tried to remove him – it just wouldn’t happen. It would create a political crisis in its own right. The only way Trump can realistically be removed from office against his will is to be impeached successfully by an opposition-party-held House and a united, bi-partisan Senate that is just sick of the shit show. His approval ratings would probably have to be somewhere in the 20s and perhaps even that’s not good enough. The only way this congress would have turned against him is if they had failed to pass tax reform and caused a deep and nasty split within the party, but who’s to say that left wing extremists in the Democratic party don’t get inspired and start a separatist movement of their own? Trump is here to stay - until about 70% of likely voters realize just how disastrous his presidency and GOP control of government are. Don’t hold your breath. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13975 "2017-12-03T22:16:44Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > No, they’re very different. Section 25 is for mental or physical incapacity, leading to removal of presidential responsibilities. Impeachment is for pretty much whatever Congress wants it to be for, and MAY lead to removal of the president > (e.g., Nixon, surely if he hadn’t resigned first), or it may not (e.g., Clinton). So enlighten me: What is the practical difference? I want to kick someone out of the White House who doesn’t wanna go: for impeachment I need some kind of majority in Congress and Senate, for section 25 I need what? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13976 "2017-12-03T22:22:50Z")
[The Odds of Impeachment Are Dropping](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/trump-impeachment/547358/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAtlantic+%28The+Atlantic+-+Master+Feed%29) > [@](#): > > …Since Robert Mueller became special counsel in May, the chances of the House of Representatives passing articles of impeachment—and the Senate ratifying them—have probably gone down. > … > …the last six months have demonstrated that GOP voters will stick with Trump despite his lunacy, and punish those Republican politicians who do not. > > Among Republicans, Trump’s approval rating has held remarkably steady. …Trump’s approval rating among Republicans has not dipped below 79 percent since he took office. None of the revelations from Mueller’s investigation—nor any of the other outrageous things Trump has done—has significantly undermined his support among the GOP rank and file. > > The GOP senators who have challenged Trump, by contrast, have seen their support among Republican voters crash. > … > > Could Mueller or some enterprising journalist uncover revelations so epic that they shake Trump’s hold on the GOP, and give Republican senators cover to support his removal? It’s unlikely. After all, the vast majority of Alabama Republicans still support Roy Moore. > > Most conservatives consume pro-Trump media, which will downplay or distort virtually anything Mueller or the mainstream press discovers… ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13977 "2017-12-03T22:36:25Z")
In a similar vein, Dahlia Lithwick at Slate writes: [Is It Too Late for Robert Mueller to Save Us?](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/12/is_it_too_late_for_robert_mueller_to_save_us.html) > [@Dahlia Lithwick](#): > > Maybe it’s too late in the slide toward authoritarianism for any major legal outcome to change the game. > > It seems as though truth and law are forever losing ground in the footrace against open looting and overt totalitarianism. The more abjectly deranged Trump’s behavior and the more Republicans in Congress cover for him, the less likely it is that anything Mueller can magic up in his underground hall of justice will matter. Trump’s legal antagonists like to think that the next legal “tick, tick, tick, boom” will be the one that ends all this chaos. But with every passing day, as Trump escapes consequences and attacks the courts and the press, the chances that a “tick, tick, tick, boom” will be played off as #fakenews also increase. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13978 "2017-12-03T22:48:56Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > So enlighten me: What is the practical difference? > > I want to kick someone out of the White House who doesn’t wanna go: for impeachment I need some kind of majority in Congress and Senate, for section 25 I need what? Good question. Let’s see… For Article 25 (not Section 25 – my mistake) to stick, **two-thirds of Congress** (House) and **two-thirds of the Senate** must approve of the Vice President’s initial declaration. Impeachment occurs in the Congress (House), with a **simple majority**. Removal then occurs in the Senate, with a **two-thirds majority**. So, if the only factor were political party loyalty (of course, it would likely never unfold in so simple a fashion), it’s slightly easier to remove via impeachment than via declaration of incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13979 "2017-12-04T04:11:31Z")
The President of the FBI Agents Association today: “Every day, FBI Special Agents put their lives on the line to protect the American public from national security and criminal threats. Agents perform these duties with unwavering integrity and professionalism and a focus on complying with the law and the Constitution.” ”This is why the FBI continues to be the premier law enforcement agency in the world. FBI Agents are dedicated to their mission; suggesting otherwise is simply false.” > ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13980 "2017-12-04T06:48:11Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Good question. Let’s see… For Article 25 (not Section 25 – my mistake) to stick, **two-thirds of Congress** (House) and **two-thirds of the Senate** must approve of the Vice President’s initial declaration. > > Impeachment occurs in the Congress (House), with a **simple majority**. Removal then occurs in the Senate, with a **two-thirds majority**. > > So, if the only factor were political party loyalty (of course, it would likely never unfold in so simple a fashion), it’s slightly easier to remove via impeachment than via declaration of incompetence. So for all practical purposes both are the same? You guys better get used to him: He ain’t goin’ nowhere. There is no realistic scenario that leads to his removal. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13981 "2017-12-04T07:20:39Z")
Agreed. As far as this fraud of an individual has “succeeded” all this time, you’d have to convince millions of people why he should be disliked. He’s rich! He’s different! He tells it like it is! Suuuuuuuure, he does. This investigation can’t be expected to end in impeachment, only a public shaming of a few (Sessions, Comey, Jared). There are just too many gourd-loving retards and yam-loving buttfuckers that will defend their man-crush to the end. I can see Jared in fed prison for a year, reported no correspondence from Two-Scoops, and everyone will be happy with that. This reptilian human has had enough evidence against him for criminal charges since the 1990s. Pull his tax reports, prove he hasn’t ever paid any (as he claimed) and what will happen? “He’s so AWESOME! I should do that too!” is all we will hear. For some reason, a child-minded, yam-colored humanoid gets cheers for driving his golf cart on the greens because he’s “awesome”. My only hope is that he actually stays in the best possible health any human ever has, so we have longer to avoid a parade of MAGA hat-clad yam lovers lining up along the bible belt waiting to give praise and sign petitions to make the orange turd a Catholic saint while displayed in a see-through, gold trimmed casket. Longer than the Reagan line, for sure. Stay healthy, Mr. Mandarin. No ice-cream overdoses for you, Sherbet. But for this investigation? Why would this ever take so damn long? I’ve lied, I’ve mislead fellow investors, I stole the coat of arms and called it my own design, I’ve got a fake TIME magazine cover saying it’s real, I’ve told the world my daughter was hot and sexy. I’ve bragged about grabbing vaginas, I’ve been elected to public office… and you’ve got nothing on me? Really? An investigation on someone like this can’t take more than a week, and I mean that includes the grand jury trial. Everyone and the janitor will be indicted before Two-Scoops is even winked at. The Mueller investigation is a fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13982 "2017-12-04T08:00:40Z")
Perhaps not. According to what I’ve read, Mueller has the power to indict Trump and have the indictment sealed until after he leaves office, so he can definitely be prosecuted _after_ the American people come to their senses in three years and vote him out. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13983 "2017-12-04T08:49:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Perhaps not. According to what I’ve read, Mueller has the power to indict Trump and have the indictment sealed until after he leaves office, so he can definitely be prosecuted _after_ the American people come to their senses in three years and vote him out. Perhaps… “after” and “come to their senses” for me is quite a long-ass time. **After** he leaves office could be 2024, and American peeps coming to their senses is another long time. Its’s almost like McCarthyism is the new hip dance craze again. I feel like doing the Flintsone Flop right now. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/13984 "2017-12-04T12:33:51Z")
Trump always looks vulnerable during his fits of rage and whenever there’s a new drip of information about the investigation. But he has learned to manage the news cycle. Like a potent strain of bacteria, he’s actually learning to survive and function in this harsh environment. The news cycle calms down and then we’re reminded of his political incompetence, except that now he can actually claim a political victory in signing tax reform. The growing danger here is that Trump becomes normal, that all of this becomes just another day in the life. It’s already clear that he has contempt for democratic institutions and that a good many of his republican colleagues in congress and around the country share those feelings. It’s clear, too, that he relied on less than democratic means to win an election, and yet he won and we’re living with him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=698) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=700)