# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 720
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14385 "2017-12-17T05:32:10Z")
Hard to picture someone being proud of being an average American. Surely that’s not a high bar; intellectually, morally or culturally. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14386 "2017-12-17T05:47:09Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > > [@mikecurtis](#): > > > > Arent y’all the same people who were losing there shit over Republicans who were willing to overlook the flaws of their candidate to ensure that a Democrat didn’t get that Senate seat? > > \ > > > > As an average American. . . welcome to the club you astoundingly ignorant asshole! > > > > mc > > What an astoundingly stupid observation. Hillary Clinton was an imperfect, but basically normal, candidate running against an abysmally awful candidate (and awful person). Roy Moore was an abysmally awful candidate (and awful person) running against a completely fine candidate. > > Did a nice long browse through the dictionary clear things up for you? Thank you, **Max**. I’d already clicked Multiquote to rebuke **mikecurtis** , but you’ve done it more eloquently (and more politely) than I would have. I wish the Board offered more options than ‘Ignore.’ I barely recall **mikecurtis** from before, so obviously he wasn’t irritating enough to Ignore. To the contrary, _I’d like to Highlight his posts_: they may give insight into the defective right-wing “cognition” this once-great country is up against. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14387 "2017-12-17T06:40:40Z")
Just a thought here, but is it possible for progressives and liberals / moderate Democrats to stop with all the sniping and open hostility against one another? Sure, we don’t agree on the _degree_ of change we demand, but we’re all kind of on the same side here (The right side of history, preventing our country from actively _regressing_). If you REALLY want to bitch about the 2016 election, why don’t we focus on the absolute fraud it was? When we attack each other instead of them, we’re doing EXACTLY what authoritarian assholes like Trump and his ilk want us to do. [The GOP’s Stealth War Against Voters - 1 Million Votes Not Counted By Interstate Crosscheck System](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/the-gops-stealth-war-against-voters-w435890) [6.1 Million Americans Couldn’t Vote Due to Felonies](https://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000287)[Voter Suppression Laws - What’s New Since 2012? - ACLU](https://www.aclu.org/map/voter-suppression-laws-whats-new-2012-presidential-election) [60% of Presidents in the 20th Century lost the vote / how to become President with 23% of the Vote - NPR](https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/500112248/how-to-win-the-presidency-with-27-percent-of-the-popular-vote) And that’s not even mentioning possible Russian interference or collusion. Though the jury’s still out on that (hopefully, some day, literally). …and don’t even get me started on fucking gerrymandering. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14388 "2017-12-17T07:08:09Z")
> [@AI\_Proofreader](#): > > Sure, we don’t agree on the _degree_ of change we demand, but we’re all kind of on the same side here (The right side of history, preventing our country from actively _regressing_). I disagree. There are a surprisingly large number of people who would actively love to see the country regress to the “good old days” when “those people” knew their place, and they are NOT on the right side of history. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14389 "2017-12-17T07:34:22Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > I disagree. There are a surprisingly large number of people who would actively love to see the country regress to the “good old days” when “those people” knew their place, and they are NOT on the right side of history. Not that many among the camps that were bickering in the last two pages, namely Hillary supporters / Democrats and Bernie Sanders / Jill Stein progressives. On the right racism and sexism are a point of pride for a large number of them; subtly acknowledged as perhaps not unwarranted by another large bloc; and the remainder tacitly ignore it for what they perceive as the greater good in “making America great again.” On the left, anyone who admits to racism or sexism is openly reviled. My point was that those on the left have far more in common with each other than we do with those on the right, and it’s pretty damn counterproductive to be blaming each other for the shit-show we find ourselves in a whole damn year after that election. But if we have to rage about this yet again, maybe we can stop attacking each other and acknowledge our totally-fucked-from-top-to-bottom election system instead and focus on doing something about that. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14390 "2017-12-17T08:44:04Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Or a Motion in Limine. Wow. These are all [del]Greek[/del] Latin to me … but then the only bars I’m admitted to serve alcohol. This prospective “judge” went 0 for 5 on the questions put to him. :eek: Were these special Gotcha questions? Or did Kennedy have inside info on the details of the nominee’s ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14391 "2017-12-17T15:02:36Z")
> [@AI\_Proofreader](#): > > Not that many among the camps that were bickering in the last two pages, namely Hillary supporters / Democrats and Bernie Sanders / Jill Stein progressives. > > On the right racism and sexism are a point of pride for a large number of them; subtly acknowledged as perhaps not unwarranted by another large bloc; and the remainder tacitly ignore it for what they perceive as the greater good in “making America great again.” On the left, anyone who admits to racism or sexism is openly reviled. > > My point was that those on the left have far more in common with each other than we do with those on the right, and it’s pretty damn counterproductive to be blaming each other for the shit-show we find ourselves in a whole damn year after that election. > > But if we have to rage about this yet again, maybe we can stop attacking each other and acknowledge our totally-fucked-from-top-to-bottom election system instead and focus on doing something about that. It’s important to remind people of the price we’re paying in the interests of ideological purity. I would have fully supported Bernie Sanders had he won the nomination, and I haven’t found many Clinton supporters or mainstream Democrats who wouldn’t have. It’s those on the fringe left, who repeatedly assert that the Democratic party stole something from them who are to blame. It’s their conspiracy theorist view of the world that aided Trump’s rise to power, and they need to own it. That said, I’d still gladly support Bernie and a lot of other more ideologically hard left candidates over Trump. I just doubt that they’re going to be as successful as they believe they are. I think Doug Jones’ victory underscores the fact that there are different flavors of progressive and that people who aren’t members of the Democratic party but assert that they know what’s best for its future really need to get that message. It’s not sniping; it’s enlightenment. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14392 "2017-12-17T15:05:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I dunno… starve when your impoverished red state can’t get any more transfer payments from prosperous blue states? Our maybe they could take a look at blue states and learn a lesson about productivity. States with progressive policies are in general much more productive than red states- look at the PER CAPITA GDP of the US states. > **[List of U.S. states and territories by GDP](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita)** > > This is a list of U.S. states and territories by gross domestic product (GDP). This article presents the 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia and their nominal GDP at current prices. > The data source for the list is the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) in 2023. The BEA defined GDP by state as "the sum of value added from all industries in the state." > Nominal GDP does not take into account differences in the cost of living in different countries, and the results can vary greatly from on... Except for a handful of states that are literally sitting on gold mines in that they have huge stockpiles of natural resources, the distribution is Blue states at the top, red states at the bottom. The suggests that people are more productive when their populations are supported by governments that value their health and security. Yet the government seems to feel that adopting the tax policies of the lowest producing states will make the country more productive. That’s just stupid. > [@zoid](#): > > I disagree. There are a surprisingly large number of people who would actively love to see the country regress to the “good old days” when “those people” knew their place, and they are NOT on the right side of history. I think you misunderstood Al Proofreaders post completely- he was talking about divisions within the Democratic Party, not Democrats vs Pepublicans. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14393 "2017-12-17T15:59:50Z")
Has [this outrageous video](https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1838629286230117/?hc_ref=ARQVfgIxaywaFc_YiCUiBCogPKZJ7-rZiQdgP4XyYGKA0GzyS3IjibnaD6ln4uFcdBg) been posted here yet? Do I understand it correctly? It is witness testimony that Epstein and his guest Donald J. Trump raped a 13-year old girl. Jane Doe, with death threats against her, withdrew the lawsuit in early November 2016. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14394 "2017-12-17T16:09:14Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > … November 2016: it was a binary choice between Trump getting the Presidency and Trump being shown the door. The responsibility of every US voter was to decide which of those outcomes was most desirable. > … This is the truth. I wonder how many Trump voters, requiring life saving surgery and given a chance to choose their surgeon, would choose an ignorant doofus that never attended med school. Trump voters: Idiots, the lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14395 "2017-12-17T16:21:44Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > And this. Too many people voted for Trump, just to say “fuck you” to all the rest of us. This is incorrect, in my opinion. People didn’t want to say “fuck you” to you, or to your family or to your neighbor. People wanted to say “fuck you” to the system that’s been failing them for years. It wasn’t personal or even abstract about “Americans” or “people”, it was specifically at the system that they feel has been failing so many people (but mostly themselves) for so many years. Unfortunately, right now there’s a weird confluence where neither the poor, the middle class nor the rich are happy with the government, and all for what they think are the same reasons: they aren’t getting enough and they have to give too much. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14396 "2017-12-17T17:36:21Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Voting for Clinton even if you don’t think she’s perfect is the same as voting for a pedophile that hates the constitution. Got it. Yup, you got it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14397 "2017-12-17T17:42:14Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This is incorrect, in my opinion. People didn’t want to say “fuck you” to you, or to your family or to your neighbor. > > People wanted to say “fuck you” to the system that’s been failing them for years. It wasn’t personal or even abstract about “Americans” or “people”, it was specifically at the system that they feel has been failing so many people (but mostly themselves) for so many years. > > Unfortunately, right now there’s a weird confluence where neither the poor, the middle class nor the rich are happy with the government, and all for what they think are the same reasons: they aren’t getting enough and they have to give too much. I disagree. For too many of them it was definitely a “fuck you”. We see a small sampling of it here on the Dope. The ones here are NOT the only ones. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14398 "2017-12-17T17:49:33Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Nice. The blue states pay into the system. The red states just suck it up like leeches. […] NO subsidies for ANYONE. We’ve heard the talk, now let’s walk the walk. I also love using dehumanizing reactionary rhetoric to, uh, own the reactionaries? > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Except being a so-called ‘Liberal’ (which she isn’t) is, in your mind, worse than committing statutory rape and being a serial sexual predator. Nothing Clinton did, or allegedly did, is as bad as that. How about Iraq, Libya, or Yemen? I’m not sure what the conversion rate is for American little girls to dead foreigners, so maybe not. > [@asahi](#): > > It’s those on the fringe left, who repeatedly assert that the Democratic party stole something from them who are to blame. It’s their conspiracy theorist view of the world that aided Trump’s rise to power, and they need to own it. Hillary’s team helped Trump win the primaries with their pied piper strategy, and more PUMAs voted for McCain than Sanders supporters voted for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14399 "2017-12-17T17:52:34Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I disagree. For too many of them it was definitely a “fuck you”. We see a small sampling of it here on the Dope. The ones here are NOT the only ones. If you mean the people who find joy in the suffering of others, I won’t argue with you. If you mean people who were going to vote Republican because “fuck those Democrats”, I won’t argue with you. But the people I’m talking about, the people who voted for Trump that actually swung the election, didn’t do it to say “fuck you” to their neighbors, they did it to say “fuck you” to the system, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14400 "2017-12-17T17:52:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > These are all [del]Greek[/del] Latin to me … but then the only bars I’m admitted to serve alcohol. > > This prospective “judge” went 0 for 5 on the questions put to him. :eek: Were these special Gotcha questions? Or did Kennedy have inside info on the details of the nominee’s ignorance? None of the questions were even slightly difficult. Almost all lawyers could have answered after practicing one year. This guy may be intelligent (I have no idea) but he has no business becoming a Federal District Court Judge (for life) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14401 "2017-12-17T17:55:23Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > None of the questions were even slightly difficult. Almost all lawyers could have answered after practicing one year. This guy may be intelligent (I have no idea) but he has no business becoming a Federal District Court Judge (for life) Ken White thinks so too: [I Have Almost Nothing Bad To Say About Matthew Spencer Petersen](https://www.popehat.com/2017/12/15/i-have-almost-nothing-bad-to-say-about-matthew-spencer-petersen/) > [@](#): > > Mr. Petersen is smart and well-educated. He is respected by his peers. He is, reportedly, good at his job as Chairman of the Federal Election Commission. When Senator John N. Kennedy (R-LA) asked him a series of increasingly brutal questions revealing his lack of relevant experience and knowledge about issues relevant to the federal judiciary, he responded with humility and self-effacement, not bluster or entitlement: > > Mr. Petersen is manifestly not qualified to be a United States District Judge — that is, a federal trial judge. But that, in itself, does not reflect badly on him. Few people are qualified for that position. There are around 1.3 million lawyers in America and only around 2,800 federal trial judges. It’s an elite job and there’s no shame in not being qualified for it. It’s unfortunate that he accepted the nomination, and I suppose that does not speak well of him, but it’s hard to throw the first stone there — how many of us would turn down such power and such an honor out of an awareness of our own shortcomings? > > But his nomination reflects very badly on this administration, on those Senators who will support him out of party loyalty, and on the American Bar Association, which rated him as qualified. > [@](#): > > You can probably find similarly unqualified people in history nominated by Democrats and Republicans. I don’t care. Being good at one law job (FEC Chair), being prominent, being connected, being politically astute, is not the same as being qualified for the federal trial bench. The ABA’s “qualified” ranking undermines its credibility and reveals its deference to power and position. > > I have almost nothing bad to say about Matthew Spencer Petersen. But I have nothing good to say about the people who nominated and supported him. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14402 "2017-12-17T18:15:56Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > If you mean the people who find joy in the suffering of others, I won’t argue with you. If you mean people who were going to vote Republican because “fuck those Democrats”, I won’t argue with you. But the people I’m talking about, the people who voted for Trump that actually swung the election, didn’t do it to say “fuck you” to their neighbors, they did it to say “fuck you” to the system, IMO. There were just enough of each group. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14403 "2017-12-17T18:17:39Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > I also love using dehumanizing reactionary rhetoric to, uh, own the reactionaries? Why not? Why should only ONE side have to be “civil” about it? Fucking snowflakes. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14404 "2017-12-17T20:46:43Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This is incorrect, in my opinion. People didn’t want to say “fuck you” to you, or to your family or to your neighbor. > > People wanted to say “fuck you” to the system that’s been failing them for years. Failing them by failing to preserve the supremacy of whiteness, perhaps. Trump was elected for racist reasons, not economic ones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=719) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=721)