# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 724
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Urquhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/db5fbb/32.png) [@Gordon\_Urquhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Urquhart)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14465 "2017-12-20T21:01:50Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Anybody have a link to that tax calculator? [Here you go.](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/upshot/tax-calculator.html?_r=0) My household (married, no kids, itemize deductions) gets an extra $143/month. I’d gladly give that up, and more, to live in a country governed by people with hearts and/or souls. We might just slide that amount each month into our end-of-year charitable giving account, and disperse it that way. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14466 "2017-12-20T21:03:26Z")
~$6200 savings for my family. Yo Bayard! You realize that putting money into equities allows business to expand? Furthermore, more liquid cash available to buy equities increases demand and thus value for those selling equities they currently hold. So your spending, even on investments, does help others. Sad isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14467 "2017-12-20T21:08:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > ~$6200 savings for my family. Yo Bayard! You realize that putting money into equities allows business to expand? Furthermore, more liquid cash available to buy equities increases demand and thus value for those selling equities they currently hold. So your spending, even on investments, does help others. Sad isn’t it? How can a business expand if potential customers don’t have money to buy the product? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14468 "2017-12-20T21:13:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > ~$6200 savings for my family. Yo Bayard! You realize that putting money into equities allows business to expand? Furthermore, more liquid cash available to buy equities increases demand and thus value for those selling equities they currently hold. So your spending, even on investments, does help others. Sad isn’t it? Unless I’m buying a new stock offering (I’m not), the impact to the business is indirect at best. My money goes to the last guy who owned the stock. I suppose increasing the demand and value of the stock helps everyone who owns that stock, which potentially includes helping increase the value of other people’s 401k or whatever. But the effect on someone who needs a job is minuscule. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14469 "2017-12-20T21:18:23Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How can a business expand if potential customers don’t have money to buy the product? Well, when the corporate tax rate goes down, corporations will take that extra money and spontaneously start paying more for all their supplies, including labor. I hadn’t thought of that. My company’s tax bill is about to go down! That means I’m going to get a raise. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14470 "2017-12-20T21:20:10Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > My wife and I are just over the line into the top 1% of American household income. According to the NY Times calculator, we will see a cut of between $13,000 and $19,000. And we will definitely use that money to create jobs!! > > Nah, just foolin’! We’ll put it in our retirement investments and kids’ college funds. Sorry, Trump voters, almost none of my savings will trickle down to you. That stuff you feel trickling on your head and down your back? It ain’t money. > > FTR, I hate Trump, I hate the Republican Party, and I hate this tax bill. I support higher taxes and more social safety net programs. Sure, I’ll enjoy the extra money, but I’d prefer living in a more just and sustainable economy. If you actually spend that money in the economy, it will create jobs. Do you actually have anything that you would now purchase that you would not have before the “cut”? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14471 "2017-12-20T21:20:43Z")
Last item [in this list](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gop-tax-plan/story?id=51824265): Repeal of the individual mandate ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14472 "2017-12-20T21:23:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > ~$6200 savings for my family. Yo Bayard! You realize that putting money into equities allows business to expand? Furthermore, more liquid cash available to buy equities increases demand and thus value for those selling equities they currently hold. So your spending, even on investments, does help others. Sad isn’t it? Do you know why businesses expand? From your post, it is clear that you do not. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14473 "2017-12-20T21:26:53Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Do you actually have anything that you would now purchase that you would not have before the “cut”? Not really. We bought a house and a used car in 2016. We leased a new car this year. We don’t own or want another house, a boat, or any new gadgets or gizmos. We’re planning to do some remodeling on our house, but we’ve been planning that ever since we bought it. Pretty much any extra money we get, such as bonuses from our employers, etc., goes into long term savings. We do also support my wife’s family financially, but we’ve been doing that for years. We may give them more money if they need it. Other than that, though – retirement and college funds. That makes me sound like a selfish prick. I’ve been meaning to develop a charitable giving plan. Maybe we’ll take this opportunity to do that. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14474 "2017-12-20T21:32:57Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Not really. We bought a house and a used car in 2016. We leased a new car this year. We don’t own or want another house, a boat, or any new gadgets or gizmos. We’re planning to do some remodeling on our house, but we’ve been planning that ever since we bought it. Pretty much any extra money we get, such as bonuses from our employers, etc., goes into long term savings. We do also support my wife’s family financially, but we’ve been doing that for years. We may give them more money if they need it. Other than that, though – retirement and college funds. > > That makes me sound like a selfish prick. I’ve been meaning to develop a charitable giving plan. Maybe we’ll take this opportunity to do that. Non-profits might take a pretty big hit from this tax bill, so donations would be a big help. And health care non-profits in particular did a ton of heavy lifting in 2017. Note: I work for a health care non-profit, so I’m not exactly objective. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14475 "2017-12-20T21:36:17Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > That makes me sound like a selfish prick. I’ve been meaning to develop a charitable giving plan. Maybe we’ll take this opportunity to do that. Not really. It is in your best interest to do what is in your best interest. It may be in your best interest to pay more in taxes, along with your peers, but it is not in your interest to do so alone. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14476 "2017-12-20T21:51:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How can a business expand if potential customers don’t have money to buy the product? Folks with a tax reduction can buy more goods and services. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Do you know why businesses expand? From your post, it is clear that you do not. See above. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14477 "2017-12-20T21:55:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Folks with a tax reduction can buy more goods and services. > See above. They’ll spend what they save on increased premiums for their health insurance. What **SammyA** is to science, you are to economics and politics. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14478 "2017-12-20T21:56:55Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > They’ll spend what they save on increased premiums for their health insurance. > > What **SammyA** is to science, you are to economics and politics. Perhaps. But don’t you have a revolution to run? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14479 "2017-12-20T21:57:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Folks with a tax reduction can buy more goods and services. The people who are getting the bulk of the tax breaks are already at a high enough income that they’re not budgeting to a significant degree (or at all) for basic needs. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14480 "2017-12-20T21:59:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Perhaps. But don’t you have a revolution to run? Only as much as you have a kleptocracy to defend. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14481 "2017-12-20T22:02:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Perhaps. But don’t you have a revolution to run? I’ll do that, you keep your tongue out of the wall socket. Deal? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14482 "2017-12-20T22:03:58Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > They’ll spend what they save on increased premiums for their health insurance. > > What **SammyA** is to science, you are to economics and politics. I don’t know about that. It is possible that in a thousand years, or ten thousand, or even a hundred thousand, some of Sammy’s predictions could come true. Not in a million years will octupus’s views be validated. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14483 "2017-12-20T22:21:41Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How can a business expand if potential customers don’t have money to buy the product? Find new customers. Or produce better products so that customers spend more on you, either by working more, saving less, spending less on other products, borrowing, or selling their children to the salt mines. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14484 "2017-12-20T22:26:49Z")
According to the CNN calculator, my tax cut will total approximately $760, or about an extra $63 a month. I wonder how much my insurance premiums are going to go up by. If I’m lucky I’ll be able to turn that sweet lucre around to maybe new video game next year or something – I mean when Steam has another sale, that is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=723) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=725)