# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 725
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14485 "2017-12-20T22:34:53Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > According to the CNN calculator, my tax cut will total approximately $760, or about an extra $63 a month. I wonder how much my insurance premiums are going to go up by. If I’m lucky I’ll be able to turn that sweet lucre around to maybe new video game next year or something – I mean when Steam has another sale, that is. Hey but you won’t be required to buy insurance now – of course that’ll really make premiums jump but don’t buy it if you don’t need it. Why should someone buy insurance when they can just go bankrupt or lie dead in the street? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14486 "2017-12-20T22:35:44Z")
Were I not exempt this current year (legal resident of PR, no income other than salaries and personal property sales not crossing the borders of the jurisdiction (oh, and it’s a high tax jurisdiction - expected PRIT liability \>20K) so I could have benefitted from SALT deduction were liable for US income tax), my cut for next year per the calculator would be between 30 and 140 bucks. Color me unimpressed. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14487 "2017-12-20T22:43:20Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Hey but you won’t be required to buy insurance now – of course that’ll really make premiums jump but don’t buy it if you don’t need it. Why should someone buy insurance when they can just go bankrupt or lie dead in the street? I’m 52 years old, I’m deaf in my right ear, my left big toe is apparently rotting off, my left rotator cuff sends a continuous wave of pain down my arm and on top of all that, if these panic attacks don’t subsist soon I’m going to end up in the loony bin. I need insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14488 "2017-12-20T23:00:08Z")
Oh, and Trump said Merry Christmas, and that he has just given everyone a uuuuuuge gift in this bigly tax cut. I want to grab that turds toupee and run. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14489 "2017-12-20T23:01:18Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Why should someone buy insurance when they can just go bankrupt or lie dead in the street? Why should someone buy insurance when they can go to the most expensive treatment facility and have the dummies who do buy insurance pay for it? Sure, that makes premiums go up, but the non-insurance buyer isn’t paying them anyway! ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14490 "2017-12-20T23:02:57Z")
Note to self: see\*\* Johnny L.A.\*\*'s post when my toe finally falls off. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14491 "2017-12-20T23:05:05Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Here is a [calculator](http://taxplancalculator.com). $56k and four kids. $2351 savings. Huh, not quite as much as I expected but still hard to pass up. > [@asahi](#): > > And so it goes: The wealthiest are the ones who get the relief! And we know that when intellectual economists and right wing think tanks start reaching a consensus that something needs to be done about the growing national debt, two radically different solutions will be proposed: the economists who actually study this stuff will say that the donor class need to have their taxes raised; the donor class and their propaganda machine will say it’s time that the poor and elderly stop sucking off the government teat. And by then their grip on congress might well be stronger than it is even now. > > America Democracy as we’ve known it for the past 100 years is sliding backward into the 19th Century, back to the days of the Frick and the Pinkertons. Why do you think this? All signs (knock on wood) are that the GOP is headed for major losses in 2018 and 2020. (It’s true that I entered this thread expressing concern about the way Democrats are dealing with the tax cut; but I don’t think that on its own is enough to counter the wave.) And beyond that date, moving forward, the old white FOX News crowd is dying out and getting replaced every year by lots of black and brown Millennials and post-Millennials who think socialism is not so bad. > [@octopus](#): > > ~$6200 savings for my family. Yo Bayard! You realize that putting money into equities allows business to expand? Furthermore, more liquid cash available to buy equities increases demand and thus value for those selling equities they currently hold. So your spending, even on investments, does help others. Sad isn’t it? It’s amazing how supply-side economics has been thoroughly “mugged by reality” over the past few decades, but right wingers continue to cling to it like a religion. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14492 "2017-12-20T23:16:12Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Note to self: see\*\* Johnny L.A.\*\*'s post when my toe finally falls off. Note to Jack: When your toe finally falls off, send it to Paul Ryan. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14493 "2017-12-20T23:17:52Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > According to the CNN calculator, my tax cut will total approximately $760, or about an extra $63 a month. I wonder how much my insurance premiums are going to go up by. If I’m lucky I’ll be able to turn that sweet lucre around to maybe new video game next year or something – I mean when Steam has another sale, that is. I really hope that works out for you when this all settles. Unfortunately, our congress doesn’t seem to care. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14494 "2017-12-20T23:17:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Folks with a tax reduction can buy more goods and services. Folks with a public health care system can buy more goods and services too. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14495 "2017-12-20T23:33:22Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > ~$6200 savings for my family. Yo Bayard! You realize that putting money into equities allows business to expand? Furthermore, more liquid cash available to buy equities increases demand and thus value for those selling equities they currently hold. So your spending, even on investments, does help others. Sad isn’t it? Explain how buying stock on the secondary market puts money in the corporate treasuries, again? I must have missed that part of Finance 101. Or are you just going to wait for IPO’s? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14496 "2017-12-20T23:39:10Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Note to Jack: When your toe finally falls off, send it to Paul Ryan. He already has ten toes. What he needs is a heart. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14497 "2017-12-21T00:00:17Z")
From the calculator above, I should save about $6,300 - the joys of living in a reddish state. It’ll be saved, because we’ve got too much crap already (and all of our spending is covered already). There is an outside chance I’ll buy a Tesla (either S or 3), but that would have happened anyway (and $6 grand doesn’t make a huge dent in that anyway). ETA - I’d rather have functional government than the cash in any case. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14498 "2017-12-21T00:04:46Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Why do you think this? All signs (knock on wood) are that the GOP is headed for major losses in 2018 and 2020. (It’s true that I entered this thread expressing concern about the way Democrats are dealing with the tax cut; but I don’t think that on its own is enough to counter the wave.) And beyond that date, moving forward, the old white FOX News crowd is dying out and getting replaced every year by lots of black and brown Millennials and post-Millennials who think socialism is not so bad. I think the Republicans (and Putin) have a few dirty tricks up their sleeves. They’re not interested in winning fairly; they’re just interested in power, and I think we’re going to see the depths to which they will dig to get it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14499 "2017-12-21T00:07:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Why should someone buy insurance when they can go to the most expensive treatment facility and have the dummies who do buy insurance pay for it? Sure, that makes premiums go up, but the non-insurance buyer isn’t paying them anyway! I don’t think that’s the way it really works. When you need it, you have a condition - a preexisting condition. You don’t get covered then. People do sometimes wait until they get older, when the actuarial odds of getting sick increase, but they also pay more for it. Some, however, calculate that if they can wait and buy it in, say, their 50s, they might get lucky, avoid getting sick, and then switch to medicare. Of course some end up getting sick not long after getting a plan - and that’s usually when they find out that their Mickey Mouse coverage doesn’t even cover an ambulance. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14500 "2017-12-21T00:08:09Z")
Putin is said to regret the election meddling. He’s not the mastermind he is made out to be. But pessimists gonna pessimist. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14501 "2017-12-21T00:10:04Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t think that’s the way it really works. When you need it, you have a condition - a preexisting condition. You don’t get covered then. I thought even the Republicans were going to keep the pre-existing condition clause. Which, along with eliminating the “mandate” tax, just begs for free riders. But the New York Times says that’s expected to be less of a problem than previously thought, because people just aren’t that crafty. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14502 "2017-12-21T00:16:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I thought even the Republicans were going to keep the pre-existing condition clause. Which, along with eliminating the “mandate” tax, just begs for free riders. But the New York Times says that’s expected to be less of a problem than previously thought, because people just aren’t that crafty. You don’t have to be particularly crafty to sign up for insurance after you get a major sickness or injury. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14503 "2017-12-21T00:22:43Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Here is a [calculator](http://taxplancalculator.com). $56k and four kids. $2351 savings. Thanks for that. I was basing it on some numbers I heard bandied around an earlier bill which I may have misremembered. Turns out I get about $621 or a tall coffee from starbucks every morning (not including sales tax). Alternatively the 1.5 trillion over the next 10 years could completely fund CHIP, SNAP, the NIH, the IRS and [these 66 programs that Trump wants to cut](http://thehill.com/policy/finance/334768-here-are-the-66-programs-eliminated-in-trumps-budget). You know I could probably do without coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14504 "2017-12-21T00:33:17Z")
Looks like they screwed Doug Jones out of his vote in this too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=724) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=726)