# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1441 "2017-02-18T00:50:11Z")
> [@](#): > > But those fucking idiots out there who are bleating “fake news” are completely and utterly full of shit, and they know it. +1 ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1442 "2017-02-18T00:51:07Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes, I did. > > It refers to the 287(g) program. That’s a 1996 law that allows certain state officials to act as immigration enforcement officers once they’ve received the requisite training and if they work under the supervision of an immigration officer. > > There is nothing in there about “100,000 National Guard troops”. And there is nothing about “mobilizing” anyone (you do understand that when US Government “mobilizes” National Guard, they are becoming US military, right? And US military cannot be used for law enforcement inside the United States. You realize that, right?) > > The Nat. Guard, if they are used, would be used voluntarily by local authorities to cooperate with the Federal Government. As in: > > “To maximize participation by state and local jurisdictions in the enforcement of federal immigration law, I am directing the Director of ICE to engage with all willing and qualified law enforcement jurisdictions for the purpose of entering into agreements under section 287(g)” > > Yet AP saw that and faked up the “Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants” headline. > > Fake news by AP. Is it the headline that has your panties in a bunch? Does the difference between “Trump adminstation considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants” and “Trump administration considers maximizing the participation of State National Guard units to round up unauthorized immigrants” make it “fake news”? Or is this an issue with the memo itself and its veracity? Because I’m not seeing a huge difference between Trump wants the governors of states to use national guard to enforce immigration and Trump wants to mobilize national guard to enforce immigration. It seems like your nitpicking one thing (who must give the order to use them) and missing the actual substance of the story. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1443 "2017-02-18T00:56:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Obama personally opened a portal to hell, releasing the demon spawn. [http://www.motherjones.com/files/obama-satan-bible-history.jpg](http://www.motherjones.com/files/obama-satan-bible-history.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1444 "2017-02-18T00:56:57Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Is it the headline that has your panties in a bunch? Does the difference between “Trump adminstation considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants” and “Trump administration considers maximizing the participation of State National Guard units to round up unauthorized immigrants” make it “fake news”? Or is this an issue with the memo itself and its veracity? Because I’m not seeing a huge difference between Trump wants the governors of states to use national guard to enforce immigration and Trump wants to mobilize national guard to enforce immigration. It seems like your nitpicking one thing (who must give the order to use them) and missing the actual substance of the story. The headline describes a blatantly illegal action and gives a number that is nowhere in the memo. Whereas the memo follows the law and does not give any numbers. The news story was fake. The memo wasn’t. But the news story definitely didn’t match the memo. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1445 "2017-02-18T00:58:38Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes, I did. > > It refers to the 287(g) program. That’s a 1996 law that allows certain state officials to act as immigration enforcement officers once they’ve received the requisite training and if they work under the supervision of an immigration officer. > > There is nothing in there about “100,000 National Guard troops”. And there is nothing about “mobilizing” anyone (you do understand that when US Government “mobilizes” National Guard, they are becoming US military, right? And US military cannot be used for law enforcement inside the United States. You realize that, right?) > > The Nat. Guard, if they are used, would be used voluntarily by local authorities to cooperate with the Federal Government. As in: > > “To maximize participation by state and local jurisdictions in the enforcement of federal immigration law, I am directing the Director of ICE to engage with all willing and qualified law enforcement jurisdictions for the purpose of entering into agreements under section 287(g)” > > Yet AP saw that and faked up the “Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants” headline. > > Fake news by AP. Title of section D “Expansion of 287(g) Program to Include State Guard Units in the Border Region” So that directly said that the National Guard was being considered for a role. It is stated that the Guard is well suited in the role of enforcing federal immigration law. “As many as 100,000” means from 1-100,000 soldiers. Do you have a cite for a definite lower number? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1446 "2017-02-18T01:27:59Z")
[Here’s the whole AP story, which explains where the 100,000 number comes from](https://www.apnews.com/5508111d59554a33be8001bdac4ef830) > [@](#): > > At a maximum, approximately 100,000 Army National Guard and Air National Guard personnel would be available for stateside missions in the 11 states, according to statistics and information provided by the National Guard Bureau. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1447 "2017-02-18T01:38:53Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Here is the [actual memo](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3467508-Trump-National-Guard-Draft-Memo.html) > > Please point out the portion that shows that “Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants.” That would be Paragraph/Section D. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1448 "2017-02-18T01:40:26Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That would be Paragraph/Section D. And as I already explained, Section D has nothing to do with the headline. The headline describes a blatantly illegal action and gives a number that is nowhere in the memo. Whereas the memo follows the law and does not give any numbers. BTW, you know who the last president was that used National Guard troops to deal with illegal immigrants? Hint: his name starts with O and rhymes with “yo mama”. And which president did it before that one? Hint: his name is something sitting in which two birds are worth one in your hand. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1449 "2017-02-18T01:46:58Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > And as I already explained, Section D has nothing to do with the headline. Oh, you wrote some words but they were all lies. > [@Okrahoma](#): > > The headline describes a blatantly illegal action and gives a number that is nowhere in the memo. Whereas the memo follows the law and does not give any numbers. Sure, sure. And you’re an expert on the law, right? :rolleyes: Is there anything you won’t lie about? > [@Okrahoma](#): > > BTW, you know who the last president was that used National Guard troops to deal with illegal immigrants? Hint: his name starts with O and rhymes with “yo mama”. > > And which president did it before that one? Hint: his name is something sitting in which two birds are worth one in your hand. Is this your version of **Bricker** ’s schtick? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1450 "2017-02-18T01:50:00Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > [Here’s the whole AP story, which explains where the 100,000 number comes from](https://www.apnews.com/5508111d59554a33be8001bdac4ef830) > [@Okrahoma](#): > > And as I already explained, Section D has nothing to do with the headline. > > The headline describes a blatantly illegal action and gives a number that is nowhere in the memo. Whereas the memo follows the law and does not give any numbers. > > BTW, you know who the last president was that used National Guard troops to deal with illegal immigrants? Hint: his name starts with O and rhymes with “yo mama”. > > And which president did it before that one? Hint: his name is something sitting in which two birds are worth one in your hand. Didn’t you read **pulykamell’s** post? 13 minutes you had. Should be enough even for you. Or do you ignore the inconvenient posts? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1451 "2017-02-18T02:09:13Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Is it the headline that has your panties in a bunch? Does the difference between “Trump administration considers mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants” and “Trump administration considers maximizing the participation of State National Guard units to round up unauthorized immigrants” make it “fake news”? Or is this an issue with the memo itself and its veracity? Because I’m not seeing a huge difference between Trump wants the governors of states to use national guard to enforce immigration and Trump wants to mobilize national guard to enforce immigration. It seems like your nitpicking one thing (who must give the order to use them) and missing the actual substance of the story. Well, if it IS voluntary, then our governor’s response is predictable. It will be a very pointed version of “fuck you Trump”. And since it is “voluntary”, Trump can’t do a fucking thing about it. By the way. LAPD and the governor have already told him “fuck you”, but in a semi-polite way, as have the mayors of L.A and S.F. And if it is NOT voluntary, we have two Senators just itching to kick Trump’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1452 "2017-02-18T03:01:21Z")
You did fill out the [**Mainstream Media Accountability Survey**](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/lp/mainstream-media-accountability-survey) today, DIDN’T YOU? **Sieg Heil, Mein Fuehrer!** ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1453 "2017-02-18T03:26:52Z")
The use of American troops for domestic law enforcement is strictly forbidden. That would be a serious violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. From the wikipedia page; The original provision was enacted as Section 15 of chapter 263, of the Acts of the 2nd session of the 45th Congress. Sec. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress ; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section and any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment[6] The text of the relevant legislation is as follows: 18 U.S.C. § 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. Also notable is the following provision within Title 10 of the United States Code (which concerns generally the organization and regulation of the armed forces and Department of Defense): 10 U.S.C. § 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law. So at least theoretically, it could be authorized by an act of Congress, but that has always been a line no member of our government or military has been willing to cross. **If the Republicans cross this line, then we have full reason to believe that they are throwing away our Constitution and that we, the American people, are under threat of Tyranny and Dictatorship.** ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1454 "2017-02-18T03:30:12Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > BTW, you know who the last president was that used National Guard troops to deal with illegal immigrants? Hint: his name starts with O and rhymes with “yo mama”. > > And which president did it before that one? Hint: his name is something sitting in which two birds are worth one in your hand. No doubt this will be a waste of time, but here goes anyway. Cite & cite, along with explanation of same, please. Try to be accurate when you explain what Operation Phalanx really did. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1455 "2017-02-18T03:30:40Z")
I’m not giving them my email, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1456 "2017-02-18T03:38:45Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I’m not giving them my email, thanks. Then use the following email address **foolsguinea**. [president@whitehouse.gov](mailto:president@whitehouse.gov) ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1457 "2017-02-18T04:41:27Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No doubt this will be a waste of time, but here goes anyway. Cite & cite, along with explanation of same, please. Try to be accurate when you explain what Operation Phalanx really did. Since you apparently know it already, why should I bother? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1458 "2017-02-18T04:46:25Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Since you apparently know it already, why should I bother? This is just sad and pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1459 "2017-02-18T04:46:40Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Since you apparently know it already, why should I bother? Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1460 "2017-02-18T04:46:56Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > The use of American troops for domestic law enforcement is strictly forbidden. That would be a serious violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. And of course the memo was not suggesting it. It was the AP fake story that suggested it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=72) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=74)