# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 828
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16545 "2018-02-09T06:03:43Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > … why the dow dropped. Does anyone know? Idiot though he is, [Jim Cramer claims to know](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/cramer-this-market-is-seeing-a-similar-version-of-what-sparked-the-2008-financial-crisis/ar-BBITcHW?li=AAaehx7). He says that there are these instruments that constitute a bet against volatility, which I think means they pay off when market (prices) movement is more steady. He says that there was quite a lot of investment in these instruments, that the investment was heavily leveraged, and it is causing a ripple effect as investors (hedge fund managers in large part) are divesting other holdings to cover the calls on these instruments. He claims that this is a small-scale '08-like bubble pop. That article bothers me a tad in the extent to which “bet” and other gambling words are used. I prefer to spend as little time as possible thinking about how the foundation of our economy has such a major leg resting in what amounts to a huge casino. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16546 "2018-02-09T06:09:19Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > That article bothers me a tad in the extent to which “bet” and other gambling words are used. I prefer to spend as little time as possible thinking about how the foundation of our economy has such a major leg resting in what amounts to a huge casino. Sorry but… that’s what it is. A combo casino and pyramid scheme. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16547 "2018-02-09T06:24:15Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Does anyone know why the Dow is dropping so dramatically? Probably not. Lots of ideas, no answers other than my father’s observation “the market flucuates”. I have invested, usually inattentively, for 30+'years. I plan on doing what I have done in the past - stay the course. I like the advice offered by this [ninety-something](https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=241040) poster on Bogleheads. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16548 "2018-02-09T06:33:34Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Sorry but… that’s what it is. A combo casino and pyramid scheme. It is like what they say about sausage making. I know more or less how it works, but thinking about it does not improve my mood. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16549 "2018-02-09T08:52:43Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > So much for being one of the “adults” in the White House – more like one of those chain-smoking, “wife beater”-wearing old guys that used to make his way to the back room of the video store back in the day. …John Kelly was never the “adult in the room.” Alexandra Erin called it back in April last year. > > [@](#): > > It’s also an example of something I’ve been warning about since the days of the ban roll-out: John Kelly’s quiet capable hands. > > … > > Early on, a lot of people were eager to count John Kelly (career officer, four-star general) as one of the adults in the room. > > … > > But while he’s got an adult level of skills and maturity, those don’t make him a moderating influence on the Trump regime. He’s a soldier. > > … > > My prediction for the ages is and has been that we ever count up all the incriminating bits of paper that people signed their names to… > > … > > …we will find the name of Secretary John F. Kelly on more of them than anyone else in the regime. He doesn’t care. He’s doing a job. > [@](#): > > But John F. Kelly is career military. He’s a professional. He’s a pro at dealing with vague directives from some bozo who knows nothing. > > … > > If the brass says “Jump.”, a good soldier says “How high?” > > A good command officer, though, figures it out and implements it. > > … > > John Kelly is the perfect tool for this regime because he doesn’t just do what he’s told, he does better than they tell him. > > … > > In the wake of the disastrous ban roll-out, when spokespeople and top people at every agency complained about chaos and being in the dark… > > … > > .it was John Kelly who spoke to the press and said, “Oh, no. That’s wrong. It’s been very orderly. We were fully consulted and briefed.” > > He was lying. > > You know who told him to lie? > > No one had to. > > He knows the job he’s doing. Kelly hasn’t been “protecting us.” He’s been protecting Trump. He’s been doing that since the beginning. He’s a good soldier. He gets shit done. And he’s probably the most dangerous person in the administration. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16550 "2018-02-09T10:26:22Z")
Along that line, Mattis’ willingness to throw Trump a parade strongly decreases my confidence in him keeping things on the straight and narrow, legally and ethically. My only hope would be that someone else has given him orders to try and keep Trump happy and on American soil while the FBI moves in for the kill. I fear that’s being unreasonably optimistic though. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16551 "2018-02-09T13:07:04Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Kelly hasn’t been “protecting us.” He’s been protecting Trump. He’s been doing that since the beginning. He’s a good soldier. He gets shit done. **And he’s probably the most dangerous person in the administration.** He’s potentially very dangerous, given his military ties. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16552 "2018-02-09T13:15:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Along that line, Mattis’ willingness to throw Trump a parade strongly decreases my confidence in him keeping things on the straight and narrow, legally and ethically. > > My only hope would be that someone else has given him orders to try and keep Trump happy and on American soil while the FBI moves in for the kill. > > I fear that’s being unreasonably optimistic though. This is what I’ve increasingly feared for a while. As the long arm of the law and the Constitution begin to catch up with Trump’s administration, they nevertheless possess the ultimate lever of power: the military. They’ve already demonstrated a willingness to corrupt the criminal justice system, and the Republicans have essentially abdicated their role in checking presidential power. We could see the military becoming increasingly politicized in various ways. And the FBI, DoJ, and state attorneys general are no match for the military. Such decay would probably start out with seemingly legitimate purposes. The national guards in certain states called in to control civil unrest as the result of some political outrage (e.g. hacked voter rolls and contested election results in November), but increasingly, the situation devolves into a perpetual need for a security state. It seems far fetched, but as with all things Trump: every day that he’s in office, is another day that our system and all of our values as a country and society continue their decay. Every day he and his network of proxies for the billionaire class are in office is another day closer to the end of our country as we know it ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16553 "2018-02-09T13:27:25Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Such decay would probably start out with seemingly legitimate purposes. The national guards in certain states called in to control civil unrest as the result of some political outrage (e.g. hacked voter rolls and contested election results in November), but increasingly, the situation devolves into a perpetual need for a security state. It seems far fetched Seems far… where have you been living since 9/11? Just look at the amount of security docudrama available at any airport close to you or at the kind of power different members of the alphabet soup have been granted. What you describe has already been happening for almost 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16554 "2018-02-09T13:39:24Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Seems far… where have you been living since 9/11? Just look at the amount of security docudrama available at any airport close to you or at the kind of power different members of the alphabet soup have been granted. What you describe has already been happening for almost 20 years. Wait until that level of “security” theatre is a regular part of your daily commute. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16555 "2018-02-09T13:45:22Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He’s potentially very dangerous, given his military ties. I give up. How are those “military ties” dangerous? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16556 "2018-02-09T13:49:20Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I give up. How are those “military ties” dangerous? They have pictures of little tanks on them and if you press a button they play “The Stars and Stripes Forever” and General Kelly does that in EVERY FUCKING MEETING god that’s so annoying… ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16557 "2018-02-09T14:00:00Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > They have pictures of little tanks on them and if you press a button they play “The Stars and Stripes Forever” and General Kelly does that in EVERY FUCKING MEETING god that’s so annoying… Great. Now I have TSaSF as an earworm. THAT’S the danger. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16558 "2018-02-09T14:03:02Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > **RickJay** : [Here](https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-parade-will-lead-republicans-cliff-2-100004961.html) is some good reading explaining the cheetoid’s current obsession. I don’t agree with that article. Trump doesn’t remember any kind of history. He’s not trying to return America to the 50’s. He wants the parade because he’s jealous of France having one, pure and simple. Just like the Great Wall of Trump, it’s another vanity project. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16559 "2018-02-09T14:26:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Wait until that level of “security” theatre is a regular part of your daily commute. Already has been, some pharma companies love the theatre. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16560 "2018-02-09T14:31:18Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > That article bothers me a tad in the extent to which “bet” and other gambling words are used. I prefer to spend as little time as possible thinking about how the foundation of our economy has such a major leg resting in what amounts to a huge casino. I had never heard of these instruments that are based on volatility. But seeing as how they are about 6 levels removed from any real-world indication of the strength of individual companies or even the economy as a whole, I’d say the casino metaphor is perfect. Investing in volatility says as much about the economy as betting on the color of the next car to come around the corner. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16561 "2018-02-09T15:04:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Wait until that level of “security” theatre is a regular part of your daily commute. Or posting “subversive” comments online or saying “un-American” things to the wrong neighbor or co-worker. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16562 "2018-02-09T15:14:19Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Seems far… where have you been living since 9/11? Just look at the amount of security docudrama available at any airport close to you or at the kind of power different members of the alphabet soup have been granted. What you describe has already been happening for almost 20 years. I’m thinking in terms of having an ostensible military and national police presence everywhere you go, and prosecution for “dangerous” activities using what seem like legitimate examples of law enforcement but are in reality a way to shut people up. Remember, one of the very first high-profile prosecutions in the Jefferson Sessions era was going after inauguration day “rioters” in Washington, DC. Many of these “rioters” were arrested and charged with barely a shred of evidence that they even intended to participate in the protests, much less engaged in activities that could be described as rioting. It didn’t matter. They were charged and had to spend a year of their life wondering whether or not they were going to be spending half a decade in federal prison. At around that some time, a young female was charged with a felony for simply laughing out loud during a congressional hearing at Sessions’ confirmation hearings. Again, she was acquitted on the baseless charge but not before contemplating what the rest of her life would look like post-conviction. As you alluded to, the tools that they have originate from the 9/11 decision to build a security state apparatus. We believed that we needed to be protected from an external representation of tyranny, without much regard for the possibility that this machinery might fall into the wrong hands and be commandeered by tyrants from within. There is in place a security state machine that is capable of exercising dangerous levels of pressure and influence over the great masses of people. It just requires a lot of corruption and a little bit of consent. I’m afraid that both conditions exist at present. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16563 "2018-02-09T15:20:20Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Or posting “subversive” comments online or saying “un-American” things to the wrong neighbor or co-worker. Being accused of treason for not applauding during the SOTU address? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16564 "2018-02-09T16:33:04Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Does anyone know why the Dow is dropping so dramatically? > > I"ve heard this is a market correction, but the Dow has lost 10% of its value in a week. That seems too rapid to be a correction. > > I’ve heard that the tax cut and the 1 trillion deficit is going to harm the economy (raising interest rates) and that is why the dow dropped. Does anyone know? Well, a 10% drop is the very definition of a “correction”. Why it happened? Who knows. Pundits have their theories. If we get to a 20% drop, that’s a “bear market”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=827) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=829)