# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 839
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16765 "2018-02-14T14:16:35Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Also, didn’t John Edwards [face criminal charges](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/26/us/26edwards.html)for exactly the same thing? It’s okay when Republicans do it. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16766 "2018-02-14T14:46:32Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Why the fuck would he pay this out of his own pocket? that doesn’t even pass the barest of smell tests. The only thing I can figure is that this option is the least onerous of crimes to commit on behalf of Trump. Though why any lawyer is willing to take a bullet for Trump is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16767 "2018-02-14T15:34:29Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Also, didn’t John Edwards [face criminal charges](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/26/us/26edwards.html)for exactly the same thing? I think Edwards’ crime was using campaign contributions for personal use – a big no, no. Even if the intent were the same, if Trump were to use his own funds or funds not associated with his campaign to pay someone off, then he’s in the clear legally, at least in terms of campaign finance law. But I’m guessing Mueller’s going to want to have one of his dogs sniff that one out. Trump’s lawyer just basically put a giant flashing “investigate my finances” sign on his front window. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16768 "2018-02-14T15:49:13Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > On the other hand I want the Fed and the states to take their time, use all due care, and make SURE he can’t weasel, squirm, or bribe his way out like he has consistently done in the past. I’m thinking of that scene in _The Ten Commandments_ where the old lady greasing the skids under a pyramid stone gets her clothes caught only there’s no rescue by Charlton Heston. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16769 "2018-02-14T16:04:57Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I’m thinking of that scene in _The Ten Commandments_ where the old lady greasing the skids under a pyramid stone gets her clothes caught only there’s no rescue by Charlton Heston. Well, technically she was rescued by John Derek > **[Joh Derek Tebn Commandments - Bing](https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=mfWwLWIz&id=8CFCB34AFB126DDF3E923FE6BC08479E7D15146A&thid=OIP.mfWwLWIz2dOqefWoO1KPCgHaEN&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2ftexpatfaith.files.wordpress.com%2f2012%2f07%2fjohn-derek-as-joshua-in-the-ten-commandments.jpg&exph=284&expw=500&q=Joh%2BDerek%2BTebn%2BCommandments&simid=608005012896350389&selectedIndex=1&ajaxhist=0)** > > Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you. (If you’re gonna get rescued, Bo’s husband in his prime was a pretty good option). Charlton Heston’s Moses is the one who rescued John Derek’s butt for interfering with the statue assembly line, while Vincent Price drily commented that the reason they were using old women to grease the skids was precisely because they were expendable. End of Hijack ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16770 "2018-02-14T16:43:01Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think Edwards’ crime was using campaign contributions for personal use – a big no, no. Even if the intent were the same, if Trump were to use his own funds or funds not associated with his campaign to pay someone off, then he’s in the clear legally, at least in terms of campaign finance law. But I’m guessing Mueller’s going to want to have one of his dogs sniff that one out. Trump’s lawyer just basically put a giant flashing “investigate my finances” sign on his front window. Yeah, I’m assuming that Cohen’s denial is bullshit. Based on the fact that it’s obviously bullshit. I’m gonna guess that there is a 130K transfer from the campaign that made its way into, and then out of, Cohen’s pocket. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16771 "2018-02-14T16:45:44Z")
No flashing sign is needed. “Follow the money” is literally a cliche, and that seems to be just what Mueller is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16772 "2018-02-14T16:52:19Z")
Over at TPM, Josh Marshal writes that he finds it entirely plausible that Cohen paid Daniels out of his own pocket and without an expectation that he would be reimbursed, at least not _directly_. Marshal argues that Cohen “is not the President’s lawyer and never has been – not in any sense most people would understand the term and not in any way that is real”. He goes on to say that Cohen is really more of a fixer and a conduit for money into the Trump organization, especially money from Russian organized crime. Marshal says that Cohen grew up in Russian and Ukranian crime circles and is a lifelong friend of Felix Sater. Cohen himself is very wealthy, and $130,000 is not much money to him. Cohen’s job is not to represent Trump in any legal sense but to make problems go away. For doing this, according to Marshal, Cohen gets favors in return and the opportunity to build his own mini-empire, which he has done. Cohen owns assets including a $58 million apartment building in Manhattan. Marshal paints Cohen as a sort of mob captain who will happily drop a relatively small amount of money to make a problem go away, knowing that he will reap the benefits one way or another via his continued favored status from the boss. Imagine the main character in _Michael Clayton_ (George Clooney), only way richer and without any shred of decency. [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/who-will-rid-me-of-this-meddlesome-stormy-the-michael-cohen-story](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/who-will-rid-me-of-this-meddlesome-stormy-the-michael-cohen-story) I can’t vouch for Marshal’s version of facts, of course. But it seems plausible to me. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16773 "2018-02-14T16:54:56Z")
Also, now that I read Cohen’s statement, he absolutely does not claim that he paid the 130K. Rather, he claims that he paid for the facilitation of the payment. He makes absolutely no claim about where the actual 130K came from: “In a private transaction in 2016,\*\* I used my own personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000\*\* to Ms. Stephanie Clifford,” Michael Cohen said in a statement. “Neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign was a party to the transaction with Ms. Clifford, and neither reimbursed me for the payment, either directly or indirectly.” So, the Trump campaign could have given him 130K, and he spent his own money to get that money to its recipient, and his statement would still be technically true. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16774 "2018-02-14T16:55:31Z")
Cohen carefully said “Neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign" which does not mean that he wasn’t reimbursed at all. Trump exists as a man apart from the organization, presumably with funds of his own. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16775 "2018-02-14T16:58:51Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Also, now that I read Cohen’s statement, he absolutely does not claim that he paid the 130K. Rather, he claims that he paid for the facilitation of the payment. He makes absolutely no claim about where the actual 130K came from: > > “In a private transaction in 2016,\*\* I used my own personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000\*\* to Ms. Stephanie Clifford,” Michael Cohen said in a statement. “Neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign was a party to the transaction with Ms. Clifford, and neither reimbursed me for the payment, either directly or indirectly.” > > So, the Trump campaign could have given him 130K, and he spent his own money to get that money to its recipient, and his statement would still be technically true. That is a weird phrase, and Josh Marshall also commented on it. What does it cost to “facilitate a payment”? What, is the bank charging these guys to cut a cashier’s check? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16776 "2018-02-14T16:59:32Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Also, now that I read Cohen’s statement, he absolutely does not claim that he paid the 130K. Rather, he claims that he paid for the facilitation of the payment. He makes absolutely no claim about where the actual 130K came from: > > “In a private transaction in 2016,\*\* I used my own personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000\*\* to Ms. Stephanie Clifford,” Michael Cohen said in a statement. “Neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign was a party to the transaction with Ms. Clifford, and neither reimbursed me for the payment, either directly or indirectly.” > > So, the Trump campaign could have given him 130K, and he spent his own money to get that money to its recipient, and his statement would still be technically true. Who do you pay to facilitate a payment? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16777 "2018-02-14T17:04:05Z")
> [@eulalia](#): > > Cohen carefully said “Neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign" which does not mean that he wasn’t reimbursed at all. Trump exists as a man apart from the organization, presumably with funds of his own. Putin has a checkbook too, I hear. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16778 "2018-02-14T17:06:03Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Who do you pay to facilitate a payment? Forming [a private LLC](https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/politics/michael-cohen-stormy-daniels-essential-consultants-llc/index.html)in order to make a payment is likely not free. If Cohen had paid the money, he would have just said so. The phrase is not there for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16779 "2018-02-14T17:23:47Z")
So why the odd amount? Is $130,000 a round number in rubles? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16780 "2018-02-14T17:26:12Z")
Trump paid him X. He ‘facilitated the payment’ by paying someone else X - N. That person paid SD $130,000. Two opportunities to take Trump’s cash and profit from it. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16781 "2018-02-14T17:46:39Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Over at TPM, Josh Marshal writes that he finds it entirely plausible that Cohen paid Daniels out of his own pocket and without an expectation that he would be reimbursed, at least not _directly_. Marshal argues that Cohen “is not the President’s lawyer and never has been – not in any sense most people would understand the term and not in any way that is real”. I think the term we’re looking for is _consigliere_. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16782 "2018-02-14T18:04:28Z")
Is this the same lawyer who writes Trump’s incriminating obstruction of justice tweets? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16783 "2018-02-14T18:19:59Z")
> [@](#): > > In a private transaction in 2016, I used my own personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000 to Ms. Stephanie Clifford … The payment to Ms. Clifford was lawful and was not a campaign contribution or a campaign expenditure by anyone. A _lawful_ payment, hunh? Does he mention what the lawful payment was _for_? Did he get to co-star in a Stormy Daniels movie? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16784 "2018-02-14T18:34:01Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > A _lawful_ payment, hunh? Does he mention what the lawful payment was _for_? Did he get to co-star in a Stormy Daniels movie? Was it reported to the IRS and a 1099 filed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=838) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=840)