# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1661 "2017-02-27T22:41:49Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > It’s the soldiers that Trump has repeatedly dishonored. What’d he do, salute them while holding a steak in his hand? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1662 "2017-02-27T22:45:16Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > This is a pattern. Trump says “A”. People with Trump Derangement Syndrome jump up and down claiming that he said “B” and condemning him for it. > > Just the other day - Trump said “last night in Sweden”. His detractors jumped up and down claiming that he lied about a terrorist act. Where was any reference to any terrorism in what he said? None. > > Same here. > Taking Bin Laden down was a skirmish. Trump was talking about winning wars. You know the difference right? Let’s see if _you_ do. Please describe a “win” for the U.S. when it comes this subject. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1663 "2017-02-27T22:45:25Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I think this is more a matter of the changing nature of conflicts than of somehow not trying to win anymore. How do you “win” something where there’s nobody officially in charge of your adversaries? Like that matters to the meathead. (Nah, not meathead, I like meat and the animals my meat come from are smarter. What is it that comes out the other end? Yeah, that kind of head.) There have been no winning conditions possible since our glorious victory against Grenada. Even Desert Storm, we lost that. If we didn’t lose, W would not have had to return, right? There have been goals, such as capturing or eliminating Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. But Afghanistan, Iraq II, and the Africa conflicts, along with the wars on drugs, cannot be won conventionally. And anyone who thinks they can is not someone with whom can be reasoned. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1664 "2017-02-27T22:52:20Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Just the other day - Trump said “last night in Sweden”. His detractors jumped up and down claiming that he lied about a terrorist act. Where was any reference to any terrorism in what he said? None. Well, yes there is, if you look at what he actually said instead of just that four-word phrase: > [@Trump](#): > > Here’s the bottom line. We’ve got to keep our country safe. You look at what’s happening. We’ve got to keep our country safe. You look at what’s happening in Germany, you look at what’s happening last night in Sweden. In other words, his remarks implied that something happened “last night in Sweden” that seemed to suggest a threat to our country. But nothing of the sort **did** happen “last night in Sweden”. Now, you and I know that Trump didn’t actually mean anything identifiable because he’s an inarticulate doddering old jackass who mixes up things he vaguely half-remembers with whatever point he’s trying to make at the moment. “What’s happening last night in Sweden” turned out to be trumpgobble for “alleged problems with immigrants in Sweden that I watched a Fox News story about last night”. But from the context of his remarks, he definitely **sounded** as though he was referring to some alarming particular incident that took place in Sweden the previous night. The fact that Trump does such a shit job of expressing himself is entirely on him, not on his “detractors”. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1665 "2017-02-27T22:52:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s see if _you_ do. > Please describe a “win” for the U.S. when it comes this subject. Germany/Japan model. Full military occupation. US Military administration. Denazification (in this case de-radical-islamization). Suppress that ideology with full US military might like we did with the Nazi ideology. Outlaw it. Write their Constitution for them, like we did in Japan. Slowly build up civilian administration under strict control of the US, until judging that they are ready to be on their own. Or, if you don’t think this can work, don’t even go in. Doing it half way is worse than not doing it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1666 "2017-02-27T22:59:52Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Denazification Might reduce the Trump vote too much. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1667 "2017-02-27T23:01:18Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Germany/Japan model. Which involved declared war against fellow nation-states which had clearly identifiable official heads of state recognizing official military leaders who were authorized to offer official surrender which was binding on the armed forces and political leadership of the nation as a whole. Where is there any setup of that sort in any recent foreign conflict that the US has been engaged in? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1668 "2017-02-27T23:05:02Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Which involved declared war against fellow nation-states which had clearly identifiable official heads of state recognizing official military leaders who were authorized to offer official surrender which was binding on the armed forces and political leadership of the nation as a whole. > > Where is there any setup of that sort in any recent foreign conflict that the US has been engaged in? Iraq. Don’t pretend that “we” wanted to do what I said but couldn’t. We could. But, “we” never wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1669 "2017-02-27T23:08:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What’d he do, salute them while holding a steak in his hand? No, his dick. :rolleyes: He compared serving in Vietnam to the risk of STD’s he incurred while club hopping in '70’s Manhattan. He disrespected John McCain’s service in the Vietnam War, as well as the sacrifice made my Captain Khan and his family. > > [@](#): > > **Jason Kander** > ‏Verified account @JasonKander > > POTUS just said our soldiers “don’t fight to win.” > > I’d happily introduce him to some friends of mine who have fought pretty hard to win. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1670 "2017-02-27T23:09:55Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > POTUS just said our soldiers “don’t fight to win.” Strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1671 "2017-02-27T23:12:08Z")
Dolt45 now [claims credit for his opposition](http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/27/trump-says-he-just-gave-the-democrats-a-new-three-word-slogan/): > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump returned to his business and marketing roots Monday, declaring he has given the Democrats a new opposition slogan: “Obstruct and resist.” > > "It’s called ‘obstruct and resist,’ Trump quipped to reporters. “I hope I didn’t give them a new phrase because their real phrase is ‘resist.’ I think I just gave them another word.”… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1672 "2017-02-27T23:13:00Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Strawman. Don’t disrespect SCROTUS like that. His hair is made of real mammal hair. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1673 "2017-02-27T23:18:24Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The last time I remember “we won” something was Grenada. Well, yes, if the [exception](http://www.businessinsider.com/situation-room-bin-laden-2016-5)-eliminating caveat you scrawled on the rules with a crayon counts: > [@](#): > > “Victories achieved by black guys and harridans do not count.” ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1674 "2017-02-27T23:18:52Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Strawman. I’d go with Cowardly Lion, but you may have a point. Trump could use a brain, too. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1675 "2017-02-27T23:21:55Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > I’d go with Cowardly Lion, but you may have a point. Trump could use a brain, too. Cowardly Lion was always brave. And Scarecrow was always smart. You didn’t learn the lessons of that movie did you? That explains a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1676 "2017-02-27T23:21:55Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Dolt45 now [claims credit for his opposition](http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/27/trump-says-he-just-gave-the-democrats-a-new-three-word-slogan/): “Obstruct and resist”? Like how the Republicans obstructed and resisted the 2013 budget over the ACA? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1677 "2017-02-27T23:24:39Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > I’d go with Cowardly Lion, but you may have a point. Trump could use a brain, too. I’d go with the Wizard – conning people to do stuff for him and handing out diplomas and other trinkets that don’t really convey anything. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1678 "2017-02-27T23:26:04Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Iraq. But overthrowing the government of Iraq (which we achieved quite handily, by the way) was pitched to the public as a means of overthrowing al-Qaeda. Which it turned out to have basically nothing to do with. The problem wasn’t that we couldn’t or wouldn’t try to “win”, it’s that the conflict we engaged in wasn’t substantially related to the alleged objective of “winning”. Declaring war on an official nation-state as a pretended proxy for defeating amorphous insurgent/terrorist blobs is not comparable to declaring war on an official nation-state _in order to change the actions of that official nation-state_. Knocking down the house doesn’t kill the roaches, no matter how earnest and determined your “will to win”. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1679 "2017-02-27T23:27:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Cowardly Lion was always brave. And Scarecrow was always smart. You didn’t learn the lessons of that movie did you? That explains a lot. Will Trump learn the cowardly Lion’s lesson in time to make the Correspondent’s Dinner? ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1680 "2017-02-27T23:30:36Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > So - how long does it have to be that no evidence whatsoever can be found before we can acknowledge the NYT article (based on “anonymous source”) as “fake news”? > > [http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/27/intel-no-evidence-trump-campaign-contact-russia/](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/27/intel-no-evidence-trump-campaign-contact-russia/) > > "House intelligence committee Chairman Devin Nunes said Monday he’s not see any evidence so far that Trump campaign officials had any contacts with Russian officials, contradicting public reports. > … > The California Republican said his committee has had a “long, ongoing” probe of Russian activities, which he had hoped wouldn’t become public. But based on news reports he was forced to make the probe public, and to expand it to include looking at the accusations against the Trump team. > > Mr. Nunes said he had asked for evidence on three persons that reports said were involved in the conversations, and nothing has come back. While he refused to identify or speak for the investigative agencies, he said they don’t seem to have found anything themselves." This gets better. The White House orchestrated a coverup _using Nunes_ – they contacted both him and Richard Burr, and had them downplay the Russian connections to reporters. What you stated above _is the coverup._ [Confirmed, too.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-administration-sought-to-enlist-intelligence-officials-key-lawmakers-to-counter-russia-stories/2017/02/24/c8487552-fa99-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html?pushid=breaking-news_1487992457&tid=notifi_push_breaking-news&utm_term=.60bdb86bec82) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=83) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=85)