# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 85
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1681 "2017-02-27T23:32:59Z")
> [@ZebraShaSha](#): > > This gets better. The White House orchestrated a coverup _using Nunes_ – they contacted both him and Richard Burr, and had them downplay the Russian connections to reporters. What you stated above _is the coverup._ > [Confirmed, too.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-administration-sought-to-enlist-intelligence-officials-key-lawmakers-to-counter-russia-stories/2017/02/24/c8487552-fa99-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html?pushid=breaking-news_1487992457&tid=notifi_push_breaking-news&utm_term=.60bdb86bec82) If by “downplay” you mean “check with the agencies in question, then come out and tell reporters whether the agencies told you they have no evidence of it whatsoever” - then yes. So? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1682 "2017-02-28T00:02:56Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > If by “downplay” you mean “check with the agencies in question, then come out and tell reporters whether the agencies told you they have no evidence of it whatsoever” - then yes. > > So? Thank you for doing your part to make America great again! Trump tells the truth, but he’s the only one, and obviously we can’t trust anyone or any organization that disputes his truth. The best thing loyal and patriotic Americans like you can do is to make sure to repeat, very specifically, the Trump/Republican party line, no matter what it is or what the supposed facts say. If the supposed facts go against Trump’s truth, then it must be these facts that are wrong. Preach! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1683 "2017-02-28T00:19:40Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But overthrowing the government of Iraq (which we achieved quite handily, by the way) was pitched to the public as a means of overthrowing al-Qaeda. Which it turned out to have basically nothing to do with. > > The problem wasn’t that we couldn’t or wouldn’t try to “win”, it’s that the conflict we engaged in wasn’t substantially related to the alleged objective of “winning”. > > Declaring war on an official nation-state as a pretended proxy for defeating amorphous insurgent/terrorist blobs is not comparable to declaring war on an official nation-state _in order to change the actions of that official nation-state_. Knocking down the house doesn’t kill the roaches, no matter how earnest and determined your “will to win”. Especially when the regime we removed was pretty much all that was keeping the very people we were supposedly trying to defeat from moving into that country in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1684 "2017-02-28T00:25:39Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Germany/Japan model. Full military occupation. US Military administration. Denazification (in this case de-radical-islamization). Suppress that ideology with full US military might like we did with the Nazi ideology. Outlaw it. Write their Constitution for them, like we did in Japan. Slowly build up civilian administration under strict control of the US, until judging that they are ready to be on their own. > > Or, if you don’t think this can work, don’t even go in. Doing it half way is worse than not doing it at all. To borrow a quote from the movie _Wargames:_ Mr. Potato Head! MR. POTATO HEAD!!! Do you have any idea how seldom the conditions from WW2 occur in history? The vast majority of wars between nation-states ended in a peace treaty leaving both sides intact, albeit with the power scales shifted. The only times countries/regions were occupied they usually _stayed_ occupied as a new part of the victorious power (see the Balkans, British Empire in India, etc.) and that lasted for centuries. World War I saw the destruction of the three Central Powers “Empires”, but despite some occupying forces they _signed the Armistice_ and continued to rule their nation-states (albeit in the case of the Austrians and Ottomans, much-changed states, but still under Turkish and Austrian rule). The situation in WW II was an aberration in history, brought on by the Allies demand for unconditional surrender and the German/Japanese determination to fight to the last man (once they realized they couldn’t negotiate to stay in power, at least). Do you really want us occupying lands that we’ve bombed/flattened into an unconditional surrender for multiple years? Time does not hold still and the conditions under which WW II was fought are long gone. > [@Okrahoma](#): > > Iraq. Don’t pretend that “we” wanted to do what I said but couldn’t. We could. But, “we” never wanted to. OK, let’s talk Iraq. The first one (Desert Shield/Desert Storm) had a coalition that had one stated purpose: to kick Saddam out of Kuwait. Not to depose him, not to force him to cede power, not to occupy Iraq; but to get him out of Kuwait. And in this we (the US and it’s allies) succeeded–without a shred of doubt. Saddam was beaten and Kuwait was ‘freed’ (and remains today as a independent country). While you can argue that the end-game/negotiations didn’t take, There was no great desire, by either the U.S. or it’s allies, to “March on Baghdad” and depose Saddam. As for the second Gulf War, there the military objective was to depose Saddam and occupy Iraq. And this our military (with significant fewer allies) did without too much trouble. The problem came with the ‘end game’ (or lack of it) by the occupying powers. The political will was there along with the military might; but the political will had no idea what it was doing and squandered the military might. In simpler terms, the military met it’s objectives in both Iraqi conflicts; the political side of the spectrum (which just happens to have been Republican both times) failed to capitalize. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1685 "2017-02-28T00:45:23Z")
I was just reading an article about how some Trump voters having recriminations dislike being called stupid, and when they’re called stupid, they just double down. I have no sympathy. Don’t want to be called stupid, don’t say/do/post stupid shit. And stupid shit is almost all that I’m seeing/reading/hearing from Trump supporters. Stupid shit that makes the stupid shit the left puts out seem like a doctoral thesis in astrophysics. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1686 "2017-02-28T01:08:16Z")
[So Trump tweeted](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/836332166728527872) > [@](#): > > GOP now viewed more favorably than Dems, in Trump era (per NBC/WSJ poll) via @HotlineJosh: and includes the link: > **[NBCWSJ February Poll | PDF | Opinion Poll | Public Sphere](https://www.scribd.com/document/340335355/17057-NBCWSJ-February-Poll)** > > The document is a summary of a February 2017 NBC News/Wall Street Journal survey of 1000 adults in the United States. It includes demographic information about the respondents and results of questions asked, including: > > \- 51% of respondents feel... And I am looking through this poll, and I see things like 33% of the respondents want to see Trump take the lead, and 37% would rather have the Democrats in Congress take the lead role in setting policy for the country. Or rate Trump 5 (very) to 1 (not at all) trustworthy and honest. 19% gave him a 5 and 41% gave him a 1 in that rating. Or being knowledgeable and experienced enough to run the country - 15% gave him a very good rating (5) and 42% gave him a 1 - very poor rating, I am cherrypicking like crazy here, obviously - but I am also scratching my head. Did someone say look sir, here is something you should totally tweet! ---
**Author:** ![zoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71c47a/32.png) [@zoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1687 "2017-02-28T02:58:38Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Iraq. Don’t pretend that “we” wanted to do what I said but couldn’t. We could. But, “we” never wanted to. Jesus Christ! Who the fuck’s idea was Iraq in the first place. The same people cheering on the Cheeto now were the ones renaming the cafeteria french fries to “Freedom Fries” because the French decided not to go along with our stupid shit. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1688 "2017-02-28T03:02:00Z")
> [@zoo](#): > > Jesus Christ! Who the fuck’s idea was Iraq in the first place. The same people cheering on the Cheeto now were the ones renaming the cafeteria french fries to “Freedom Fries” because the French decided not to go along with our stupid shit. “And now we never win a war,” Trump added. “We never win. And we don’t fight to win.” Why are you under the impression that he only meant Democrats? “We” is “we”. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1689 "2017-02-28T03:22:15Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Why are you under the impression that he only meant Democrats? “We” is “we”. So by “we” he meant “you”? If you’re responsible for all the failing to win, then stop it! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1690 "2017-02-28T04:02:44Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Germany/Japan model. Full military occupation. US Military administration. Denazification (in this case de-radical-islamization). Suppress that ideology with full US military might like we did with the Nazi ideology. Outlaw it. Write their Constitution for them, like we did in Japan. Slowly build up civilian administration under strict control of the US, until judging that they are ready to be on their own. I’m going to guess that you must be about 14 to have the slightest idea that might work in the countries you named. Which would explain a lot of your other posts as well. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1691 "2017-02-28T04:41:48Z")
Trump eats his steak well done and smeared with ketchup. Fuck him. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1692 "2017-02-28T07:46:42Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Iraq. Don’t pretend that “we” wanted to do what I said but couldn’t. We could. But, “we” never wanted to. No, we _did_ try what you wanted in Iraq, to erase their culture and turned them into what we wanted; it didn’t work. It just ended up with a lot of dead people. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1693 "2017-02-28T07:50:01Z")
Now Obama is behind his WH leaks, as well as being behind why town hall meeting people are so angry! > **[Trump says Obama behind leaks | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-leaks/index.html)** > > President Donald Trump said he believes former President Barack Obama has been behind the leaks within his administration and the sizable, angry town hall crowds Republicans have faced across the country. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1694 "2017-02-28T08:34:48Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Trump eats his steak well done and smeared with ketchup. Fuck him. Another example of how **Shit For Brains** never got out of the 5th grade. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1695 "2017-02-28T09:26:51Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Now Obama is behind his WH leaks, as well as being behind why town hall meeting people are so angry! > > [http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-leaks/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-leaks/index.html) Wow. Just wow. The dude is clearly insane. Why can’t he be removed from office for this? Seriously, it has gotten to the point that every new comment from him on anything whatsoever is a new embarrassment. Trump, [here is a question](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqQD4dzVkwk) for you, which was also [asked not all that long ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqQD4dzVkwk). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1696 "2017-02-28T11:43:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Wow. Just wow. The dude is clearly insane. Why can’t he be removed from office for this? Seriously, it has gotten to the point that every new comment from him on anything whatsoever is a new embarrassment. Any day now: “Obama ate my strawberries!” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1697 "2017-02-28T12:20:43Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > If by “downplay” you mean “check with the agencies in question, then come out and tell reporters whether the agencies told you they have no evidence of it whatsoever” - then yes. > > So? So is that, in fact what you quoted Nunes as saying? Let’s check (helpful bolding mine): > [@Okrahoma](#): > > So - how long does it have to be that no evidence whatsoever can be found before we can acknowledge the NYT article (based on “anonymous source”) as “fake news”? > > [http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/27/intel-no-evidence-trump-campaign-contact-russia/](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/27/intel-no-evidence-trump-campaign-contact-russia/) > > " **House intelligence committee Chairman Devin Nunes said Monday he’s not see any evidence so far that Trump campaign officials had any contacts with Russian officials, contradicting public reports.** > … > The California Republican said his committee has had a “long, ongoing” probe of Russian activities, which he had hoped wouldn’t become public. But based on news reports he was forced to make the probe public, and to expand it to include looking at the accusations against the Trump team. > > Mr. Nunes said he had asked for evidence on three persons that reports said were involved in the conversations, and nothing has come back. While he refused to identify or speak for the investigative agencies, he said they don’t seem to have found anything themselves." So in both the post I quoted and in the post this is replying to, you misrepresented what Nunes actually said. He didn’t say there was no evidence; he said he hadn’t seen any. In the rest of that article, Nunes makes a lot of statements about what he thinks or what he thinks things appear as, but he offers only his own ignorance as evidence for his conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1698 "2017-02-28T14:27:30Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Now Obama is behind his WH leaks, as well as being behind why town hall meeting people are so angry! > > [http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-leaks/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-leaks/index.html) At least he’s moved on from blaming Clinton for everything. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1699 "2017-02-28T14:58:16Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > At least he’s moved on from blaming Clinton for everything. Interesting… what do you suppose that signifies? G.W. Bush had some unkind words for The Trumpster. Maybe he’ll start reaching backwards and blame Republicans who came before. So much blame to go around!! ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/1700 "2017-02-28T15:05:37Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Now Obama is behind his WH leaks, as well as being behind why town hall meeting people are so angry! > > [http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-leaks/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-leaks/index.html) I didn’t watch the interview, but from reading the article, it looks like his Friends at Fox totally lead him into that conclusion. They must love being able to lead the President the way they can. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=84) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=86)