# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 850
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16985 "2018-02-22T16:01:42Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > If some prominent Black Lives Matter spokesperson were to suggest that his followers arm themselves for self-defense against police abuse, which right-wing pundit would produce the largest cranial blast radius? In the mid-to-late 1960s some of the loudest voices for gun control were on the conservative right. Because cops were shooting down “negroes” during inner-city riots andd demonstrations, and some of them were starting to _shoot back._ ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16986 "2018-02-22T16:05:29Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > That’s cute. All I see now are lists of notorious shooters and the claim that each was a Democrat [sort of like Snopes covers here.](https://www.snopes.com/democrat-shooters-list/) > > So we get: More guns are the answer, the outraged kids are actors, they could have been killed with a knife, mass killers are always Democrats, the victims should have fought better… and so on every single time. I’m actually feeling a teensy glimmer of hope, that this time will be different. The spontaneous student activism is unprecedented, and the speed at which Trump caved on the bump stock fix — which went nowhere after Las Vegas – is amazing. (It’s a pathetically inadequate response, but any response at all is an improvement.) And we’re seeing pushback on social media. Those inevitable pro-gun memes are immediately slapped down with a quick “Russian bot!” defense that didn’t exist a few months ago. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16987 "2018-02-22T16:12:43Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Nooooooo thanks. > > I went to Catholic schools. I’ve seen what nuns can do with yardsticks. The idea of Nuns with Guns terrifies me > [nuns with guns - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=nuns+with+guns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCi4mOy7nZAhXFzlMKHbb4BJcQ_AUICigB&biw=1440&bih=729) > > [Nude Nuns with Big Guns - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_Nuns_with_Big_Guns) > [Is This the Vatican Women's Rifle Team? | Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/nuns-with-guns-photo/) “I knew nuns were tough, but not that tough!” “Aw, don’t kid yourself guys; that nun’s broken off from established dogma.” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16988 "2018-02-22T16:40:41Z")
If thump gets crossways with the NRA, might that make some of his die-hard supporters desert him? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16989 "2018-02-22T16:40:59Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That’s nothing new. The premise is that shooters choose a target that is known to be gunfree. > Which probably has some validity. Doesn’t mean the answer is to arm people who can’t shoot. It’s actually a complete load of bollocks. We had one of our own “Parkland” moments in Roseburg, Oregon, back in 2015. Nine killed, plus the gunman. Almost immediately, the gun free zone chorus started up: If only there had been an [armed Good Guy with a Gun™](https://thinkprogress.org/good-guy-with-a-gun-was-on-ucc-campus-at-time-of-massacre-1410b3cad225/) present! If only Oregon didn’t have gun free zones! Well, we don’t. There was an armed Good Guy with a Gun™ on campus that day. It was the day he learned how generally useless having a CCW is in an active shooter situation on a campus. He made an affirmative decision to stay put with his legal carry gun so he wouldn’t get accidentally shot by the SWAT team. Good call – both for him, and the SWAT team. I’m going to guess most teachers chose teaching because they didn’t want to be cops. Arming teachers has always been a ridiculous notion. It just goes to show how far the NRA will go to protect their sales, and how little they value the human lives they put at risk to make them. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16990 "2018-02-22T16:41:59Z")
> [@](#): > > I never said ‘give teachers guns’ like was stated on Fake News @CNN & @nbc. What I said was to look at the possibility of giving concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to immediately fire back if a savage sicko came to a school with bad intentions This is the tweet from this morning, where he slams the recent coverage of his statements as “fake news” and then immediately confirms the substance of that reporting. (He seems to do that a lot.) So, suppose you give this responsibility to twenty percent of teachers. When something bad happens in one of the other eighty percent of classrooms, whose fault will it be? Obviously the teacher’s, for not being armed. “This selfish teacher (probably a left-wing Hillary supporter) had access to training and firearms, and she REFUSED to take the necessary steps to defend her students! Our schools have no place for teachers who won’t accept their responsibility to attend military training and maintain a working firearm!” I know this is a hypothetical, but how else could you possibly see it going? Shooters will probably know which teachers are packing, which will make the gun-less classrooms more attractive targets. A person can do a lot of damage in the time it takes for the armed teacher down the hall to rush over and break down the door. And when this happens, what do you think the response will be from the gun people, other than making it mandatory for teachers to carry concealed weapons? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16991 "2018-02-22T16:43:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > If thump gets crossways with the NRA, might that make some of his die-hard supporters desert him? I’m testing the waters on another forum, so far the answer seems to be “no.” They’re only ideologically opposed to additional gun restrictions if Democrats propose them. About half of them are on board with whatever Trump’s suggesting, and the other half doesn’t agree but they don’t particularly care either. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16992 "2018-02-22T16:52:34Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’m actually feeling a teensy glimmer of hope, that this time will be different. The spontaneous student activism is unprecedented, and the speed at which Trump caved on the bump stock fix — which went nowhere after Las Vegas – is amazing. (It’s a pathetically inadequate response, but any response at all is an improvement.) > > And we’re seeing pushback on social media. Those inevitable pro-gun memes are immediately slapped down with a quick “Russian bot!” defense that didn’t exist a few months ago. I was looking at my lottery ticket last night, and realized that if I won, then I could hire myself a bunch of liberal arts humanities majors to combat the trolls. Have them go out for 40 hours a week, refuse to take troll bait, and raise the level of discourse overall. Well, I didn’t win (fortunately that just means the jackpot is bigger for when I win next week), so for the meantime, Soros should divert some of that money he is using to bus around illegal voters from poll to poll to take up this project. As a natural enemy of trolls, and as unexpected saviors of our civilization, I think we should call them “Hobbits.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16993 "2018-02-22T16:58:52Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That’s nothing new. The premise is that shooters choose a target that is known to be gunfree. > Which probably has some validity… It is obviously ridiculous. You know why school shooters choose the schools they shoot up? Because they’re familiar with the school. Nikolas Cruz shot up the high school he went to. The Columbine shooters shot up the high school they attended. Seung-Hui Cho shot up the college he went to. The perpetrator of the Sandy Hook massacre, which still makes me want to puke, simply chose the most convenient school to his home. The school part of the Red Lake shooting was carried out at a school the murderer had attended. Oios University? Former student. Westside Middle School? Former students. Northern Illinois University? Former student. School shooters ALWAYS target schools to which they have some connection or grievance, or in the case of Sandy Hook, because it’s just nearby. Always. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16994 "2018-02-22T17:09:08Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Seen on my Facebook feed: “Ronald Reagan was surrounded by Secret Service agents when he was shot. I guess they just needed a few armed math teachers.” The one that keeps popping up for me is “NYPD hit accuracy is only 18%” According to these, might be close to the truth. Perhaps math teachers will be more accurate… > **[HARSH REALITY: Police Are Not Highly Trained Firearms Experts](https://bearingarms.com/mmcdaniel-bearingarms/2016/06/02/individual-safety-whos-responsible-n25711)** > >   [http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public\_information/RAND\_FirearmEvaluation.pdf](http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/RAND_FirearmEvaluation.pdf) (PDF) > [@](#): > > As has been reported nationally, police officers often miss their targets (Morrison, 2006, p. 332). e NYPD reports hit-rate statistics both for officers involved in a gunfight and for officers who shoot at subjects who do not return fire. Between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate was 18 percent for gun fights. Between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate in situations in which fire was not returned was 30 percent. In 2006, the hit rate against subjects who did not return fire was 27 percent. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16995 "2018-02-22T17:15:45Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > The one that keeps popping up for me is “NYPD hit accuracy is only 18%” > > According to these, might be close to the truth. Perhaps math teachers will be more accurate… > > [HARSH REALITY: Police Are Not Highly Trained Firearms Experts – Bearing Arms](https://bearingarms.com/mike-m/2016/06/02/individual-safety-whos-responsible/) > > [http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public\_information/RAND\_FirearmEvaluation.pdf](http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/RAND_FirearmEvaluation.pdf) (PDF) Those are the same numbers I see, too. Anywhere from 15% to 30%. The FBI did a study years ago, too, but I’ve lost the link. Consider, also, the 2012 Empire State Building shooting. > [@](#): > > The officers fired a total of 16 rounds, killing Johnson and injuring nine bystanders -[Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Empire_State_Building_shooting) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16996 "2018-02-22T17:24:12Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Obviously the teacher’s, for not being armed. “This selfish teacher (probably a left-wing Hillary supporter) had access to training and firearms, and she REFUSED to take the necessary steps to defend her students! Our schools have no place for teachers who won’t accept their responsibility to attend military training and maintain a working firearm!” And if a teacher is like the one we nicknamed Ms. Petete because she was about the size of [this brightly-colored penguin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGfAqXTlqig), it’s her fault for being too short to be elligible for the military. Literature teachers must all be graduates of the Citadel. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16997 "2018-02-22T17:46:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > As a natural enemy of trolls, and as unexpected saviors of our civilization, I think we should call them “Hobbits.” Bravo. 🙂 If not armed teachers, then how about armed security guards? I mean, banks have armed security guards and bank robbery has completely disappeared, right? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16998 "2018-02-22T17:46:41Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Seen on my Facebook feed: “Ronald Reagan was surrounded by Secret Service agents when he was shot. I guess they just needed a few armed math teachers.” Which makes me think of my 7th grade math teacher, who was a genuinely lovely man. Really nice, funny, kind. Then he had a horrible PTSD flashback during class where he was grabbing kids and shoving them to the floor and dragging them behind his desk for “cover” because it wasn’t safe. I hate to think what might have happened if he had a gun. I never saw him again, for the record. He left teaching, which was a shame because he got kids excited to go to class. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/16999 "2018-02-22T17:50:07Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And if a teacher is like the one we nicknamed Ms. Petete because she was about the size of [this brightly-colored penguin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGfAqXTlqig), it’s her fault for being too short to be elligible for the military. Literature teachers must all be graduates of the Citadel. I don’t know, if Ms. Petete aims straight she strikes the shooter right in the nuts. Win for all! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17000 "2018-02-22T17:54:18Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Bravo. 🙂 > > If not armed teachers, then how about armed security guards? I mean, banks have armed security guards and bank robbery has completely disappeared, right? Do you mean robbery of banks, or robbery by banks? And if the second, does that imply that I have a legal right to armed resistance? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17001 "2018-02-22T18:12:38Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I never saw him again, for the record. He left teaching, which was a shame because he got kids excited to go to class. Hey, If I knew there was a chance of an imaginary Viet Cong attack, I’d be hopped-up, too. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17002 "2018-02-22T19:02:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hey, If I knew there was a chance of an imaginary Viet Cong attack, I’d be hopped-up, too. You bastard, stop making me laugh. I was being serious for once! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17003 "2018-02-22T19:13:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > [@RickJay](#): > > > > No lobby group has changed American political life more. > > I tried to think of a rival and the WCTU came to mind … As you noted, they got what they wanted, resulting in an ongoing national disaster, and everything they worked so hard for was completely lost less than two decades later. The NRA is in a sort of inverse position – protecting your freedom rather than taking part of it away – but “your freedom” is also oppression upon me, who chooses not to play with guns or carry them around. Extreme positions tend to beget major backlash. The deeper the ammosexuals dig in, the stronger the opposition will become. It almost feels like the US is headed toward another civil war – over guns themselves. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17004 "2018-02-22T19:56:27Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Those are the same numbers I see, too. Anywhere from 15% to 30%. The FBI did a study years ago, too, but I’ve lost the link. > > Consider, also, the 2012 Empire State Building shooting. > > -[Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Empire_State_Building_shooting) Well dang, if a cop can’t even hit the Empire State Building, that _IS_ pretty bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=849) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=851)