# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 882
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17625 "2018-03-09T05:46:54Z")
Not sure if this is the start of a beautiful thing, but преЦАРдент Trump has [reached out](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/politics/donald-trump-kim-jong-un/index.html) to his NK counterpart. If this actually ever happens, I sure hope Dennis joins them. As long as they all get along, and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17626 "2018-03-09T08:54:14Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Not sure if this is the start of a beautiful thing, but преЦАРдент Trump has [reached out](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/politics/donald-trump-kim-jong-un/index.html) to his NK counterpart. “Well, he’s president for life, OK? And he was able to do that. And that’s great. Maybe we’ll give it a shot someday.” ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17627 "2018-03-09T12:35:15Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Russia didn’t make the deal with North Korea; North Korea wanted direct talks with Donald Trump because it a) buys time, and b) gets North Korea some measure of respect. You have no idea whether that’s true or not, so I’m not sure why you state it so authoritatively. It’s entirely possible that Russia made a deal with NK. Honestly, how the fuck would you know? I’m not claiming in happened, but it certainly could. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17628 "2018-03-09T12:49:30Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > You have no idea whether that’s true or not, so I’m not sure why you state it so authoritatively. It’s entirely possible that Russia made a deal with NK. Honestly, how the fuck would you know? …because if China can’t dictate what North Korea does then how would a country with even less influence be in a position to do so? It’s kinda simple logic, really. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17629 "2018-03-09T13:32:47Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > You have no idea whether that’s true or not, so I’m not sure why you state it so authoritatively. Are you new here? It’s what he does. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17630 "2018-03-09T14:18:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Well, he’s president for life, OK? And he was able to do that. And that’s great. Maybe we’ll give it a shot someday.” The president of China is merely president for life, but Kim is nominally president for subsequent generations. A thing that CFSG would like even more. The rest of us, well, fuck that noise. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17631 "2018-03-09T15:05:45Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Does North Korea still kidnap people? Like that South Korean film director who was abducted and forced to make films for Kim Jong-il. > > A North Korean version of _The Apprentice_ may be our best way out of this mess… Great! After the talks, NK can keep him. He’d probably rather be just doing another TV show anyway. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17632 "2018-03-09T15:08:43Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Great! After the talks, NK can keep him. He’d probably rather be just doing another TV show anyway. Hey, they have a GREAT weight lose program in NK. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17633 "2018-03-09T15:09:53Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Hey, they have a GREAT weight lose program in NK. They send it all to dear leader Kim. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17634 "2018-03-09T15:13:44Z")
As has been pointed out elsewhere on this board, Trump is a master of the negotiating tactic, “You give me what I want now and I’ll give you what you want later” then reneging on the ‘later.’ So is Kim. Going to be interesting seeing how this plays out. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17635 "2018-03-09T15:24:56Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > Are you new here? It’s what he does. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17636 "2018-03-09T15:31:57Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > …because if China can’t dictate what North Korea does then how would a country with even less influence be in a position to do so? It’s kinda simple logic, really. Well, if we don’t know how much influence Russia has over North Korea, we don’t really know how much China has, either. China could be pulling Kim’s strings, but announcing to the world that they’re not. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17637 "2018-03-09T15:52:28Z")
Well, this is annoying. Let’s face facts: when Trump goes to Korea, anything short of actually crapping on the conference table will be hailed – mostly by Trump himself – as a diplomatic triumph. And rightly so, I guess. (It’s a sign of how fucked up this year is, that a reduction in the chance of nuclear Armageddon pisses me off). But then I remembered that Nixon actually achieved a legitimate diplomatic breakthrough with China…and it didn’t save his sorry ass. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17638 "2018-03-09T16:08:16Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > As has been pointed out elsewhere on this board, Trump is a master of the negotiating tactic, “You give me what I want now and I’ll give you what you want later” then reneging on the ‘later.’ So is Kim. Going to be interesting seeing how this plays out. His _lawyers_ are the masters of that tactic, methinks. In person, one-on-one, Trump blubbers obsequiously and tends to agree with anything presented to him, as long as he’s the one getting the attention. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17639 "2018-03-09T16:12:15Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > As has been pointed out elsewhere on this board, Trump is a master of the negotiating tactic, “You give me what I want now and I’ll give you what you want later” then reneging on the ‘later.’ As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, ‘I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.’ ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17640 "2018-03-09T16:31:30Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Russia didn’t make the deal with North Korea; North Korea wanted direct talks with Donald Trump because it a) buys time, and b) gets North Korea some measure of respect. My take is that at this point North Korea has already tested all the nuclear/missle technology it currently has available. While they take a year or two to develop/build new designs, they might as well see if they can get some sanctions lifted in exchange for forgoing future tests they never intended to do anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17641 "2018-03-09T16:50:11Z")
All Kim has to do is flatter trump. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17642 "2018-03-09T17:18:31Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Well, if we don’t know how much influence Russia has over North Korea, we don’t really know how much China has, either. China could be pulling Kim’s strings, but announcing to the world that they’re not. Sure, it’s possible that Russia has some some sort of influence and is in a position to broker a behind-the-scenes deal, but it’s just not likely. Unlike in Iran and Syria, where Russia had material interests and economic and political influence, they have much less influence with the regime in Pyongyang. This is not to say that they have no interest at all, but Russia’s not in a position to tell North Korea “stop your weapons program and provocations, or else…” In fact, Putin likely empathizes with Kim Jung Un’s desire to use nuclear weapons as leverage against the United States political power in the region. In any case, most of North Korea’s trade is with China. Russia might have stepped up in recent months but it’s not going to have nearly the kind of leverage with North Korea that China does. Any influence that Russia might have would be on Trump’s end, not North Korea’s. And regardless of what leverage Putin might have on Trump, the Donald is going to encounter stiff resistance from his generals if he agrees to some sort of detente that involves a perceived weakening of the American position. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17643 "2018-03-09T17:22:19Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > All Kim has to do is flatter trump. And throw him a parade. Oh my god, imagine the extravaganza Kim could mount if he really goes all out. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/17644 "2018-03-09T17:26:36Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > My take is that at this point North Korea has already tested all the nuclear/missle technology it currently has available. While they take a year or two to develop/build new designs, they might as well see if they can get some sanctions lifted in exchange for forgoing future tests they never intended to do anyway. I seriously doubt that they’re done with testing – they’ll probably test again sometime in the next year if they don’t like the directions that these talks are headed, but I would agree that they’re done with testing for the moment. I suspect that Kim is motivated partly out of concern for the impact of sanctions, but also because he feels he’s in a better position coming to the table with a credible nuclear threat. Ideally, he’d like to come to the table with an even more credible threat, but sanctions and diplomatic isolation might have forced him to start talking (or stalling, depending on how you look at it) sooner rather than later. I agree 100% about the sanctions – that’s what they want to accomplish with these talks. They will (probably) agree to freeze the development of their weapons program and testing in exchange for the lifting of sanctions. Unfortunately, that’s going to be politically difficult for the White House to accept. Trump would make himself an easy target of claims that he’s an appeaser if he agrees to that. Mind you, that criticism wouldn’t be coming from me - I’d consider it a feat and he’d be surpassing my expectations if he were to achieve this. But the hawks would have little stomach for this outcome, I’m afraid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=881) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=883)