# The Trump Administration: The Clusterfuck Continues (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 11, 2024, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068 "2024-11-11T06:19:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/201 "2024-11-18T21:29:49Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > [Seven Days in May (1964) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/?ref_=ext_shr) It’s playing on TCM right now. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/202 "2024-11-18T22:27:34Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I can’t imagine anyone crossing the line of staging a military coup just to put Vance in the big chair. You could do that with just a sniper, if that’s what you wanted to accomplish. I’d expect someone highly-ranked in the military would take over. That’s usually what happens in other countries who’ve actually been taken over via military coup. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/203 "2024-11-18T22:29:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It’s playing on TCM right now. Perfect! I saw it in the theater (on base no less) with my father when it came out in 1964. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/204 "2024-11-18T22:30:06Z")
That gig is taken! #NWOKittyDontMessAround ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/205 "2024-11-18T22:50:30Z")
> [@bobsmom101](#): > > Silly, he doesn’t have to find _any_ “undocumented immigrants!” He just has to find some inconveniently located, inappropriately pigmented, powerless people and declare them to be illegal. Shooting fish in a barrel comes to mind. This. “Illegal immigrant” is just white nationalist code for 'brown"; they don’t _care_ if the brown people in question are legal citizens, much less their immigration status. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/206 "2024-11-18T22:54:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “Illegal immigrant” is just white nationalist code for 'brown"; they don’t _care_ if the brown people in question are legal citizens, much less their immigration status. And they don’t care about white-skinned illegal immigrants either. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/207 "2024-11-18T23:35:51Z")
I remember reading several years ago that there were an estimated 1 million undocumented immigrants from Asia, and around 700K from Europe. I’m sure this ‘enforcement’ will be even-handed. And since everything is personal with this fucking infant, it probably all goes back to Melania banging the Mexican groundskeeper at Bedminster. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/208 "2024-11-18T23:51:08Z")
The thing is, using the military against domestic enemies _isn’t_ in the fascist playbook. Hitler never used the Wehrmacht against Germans - he used the Gestapo and SS. Stalin never deployed the Red Army domestically - he used the KGB. Using your own army on your own soil is pure Third World bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/209 "2024-11-19T01:19:58Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If you decide to create this, I will join your kickstarter. If I were going to create a cover band, I would put together an unironically all-male Sleater-Kinney tribute band to pay homage because I like a strong, salt of the Earth, self-possessed woman at the top of her field. Your Steffi Graf, your Sheryl Swoopes…but I will take a free breakfast buffet anytime, anyplace. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > > > [Seven Days in May (1964) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/?ref_=ext_shr) > > It’s playing on TCM right now. The novel was actually inspired by a real-life conspiracy to commit a coup which tried to recruit [Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler) (author of _War Is A Racket_, a piercing polemic against the use of the military to further imperialist interests in US interventions around the world at the cost of the lives of servicemen) as their ostensible leader of the “Business Plot”, a scheme by a bunch of wealthy industrialists to overthrow FDR and install Smedley as the dictator of a fascist regime. It didn’t get far because Smedley informed members of Congress and then testified. In general, I think that you would find the military extremely reluctant to participate in anything vaguely resembling a coup against the US government for reasons discussed above. You’ll find the occasional Michael Flynn who might happily lead one. but finding enough support to gain control of the complex military apparatus seems highly unlikely. Which is not to say that the military might fall in line behind some civilian leader who successfully executed a coup and had decisive control over the government and support of Congress (although I think there would be an enormous amount of teeth gnashing) but actually supporting a coup using military force against US civilians is something that senior military officers are so inculcated against that think it highly implausible. > [@Alessan](#): > > The thing is, using the military against domestic enemies _isn’t_ in the fascist playbook. Hitler never used the Wehrmacht against Germans - he used the Gestapo and SS. Stalin never deployed the Red Army domestically - he used the KGB. Using your own army on your own soil is pure Third World bullshit. Yeah, the problem with the military, again, is that they aren’t really constituted for this kind of action, and (especially the US military) has a lot of underprivileged minorities who didn’t sign up for this. It essentially creates a scenario where the military will likely be paralyzed by conflicting motivations and orders even if the military leadership were to move in lockstep with such an order (which, again, they won’t). Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, all developed paramilitary militias that were separate from the regular army, or in Franco’s case, used the Army of Africa which was devoted to him. Stalin used the intelligence services to kill or exile his opponents, and so gutted the Red Army after WWII that it never established the professional NCO corps that a military needs for continuity of experience and functional authority at the tactical level. Coups are really a feature of already unstable regimes that are collapsing from within, or are covertly supported by outside funding, and often enough the leaders actually have the best of intentions (or, at least, do not intend to install themselves as “Dictator for Life”a successful coup will generally eliminate the elements of legitimate political opposition and dismantled whatever democratic institutions existed, and trying to reestablish this weakens the power of the new regime so the dictatorship becomes the default until the leader is displaced (sometimes by popular revolt but more often by another would-be strongman) or expires. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/210 "2024-11-19T01:33:07Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > In general, I think that you would find the military extremely reluctant to participate in anything vaguely resembling a coup against the US government for reasons discussed above. In fiction, rational minds win out. In real life, I’m not as confident as I was four-to-eight years ago. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/211 "2024-11-19T02:06:38Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Sleater-Kinney It’s funny because I saw that band name and realized I was completely unfamiliar with the band, yet I know that name for some reason. So I Googled it, and found out on the band’s Wikipedia page: > The group’s name derives from Sleater Kinney Road, in Lacey, Washington, where signs for Interstate 5 exit number 108 announce its existence. And I realized that I’ve driven past that exit dozens of times on the way to my agency’s headquarters (and back), which I used to do every month for years for in-person meetings (before the pandemic) and still do on occasion. (The exit I take is 102.) I’m sure that band will pop into my mind the next time I drive down there. ---
**Author:** ![DaveUnknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@DaveUnknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveUnknown)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/212 "2024-11-19T02:08:01Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > In real life, I’m not as confident as I was four-to-eight years ago. What I was going to say. Any level of critical thinking 10 years ago has gone the way of “I get my news from Joe Rogan” now. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/213 "2024-11-19T02:27:24Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s funny because I saw that band name and realized I was completely unfamiliar with the band, yet I know that name for some reason. > [@Atamasama](#): > > And I realized that I’ve driven past that exit dozens of times I think of the band every (rare) time I drive by the exit. I’m not sure if I have any of their music on my iPod. > [@DaveUnknown](#): > > > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > > In real life, I’m not as confident as I was four-to-eight years ago. > > What I was going to say. Any level of critical thinking 10 years ago has gone the way of “I get my news from Joe Rogan” now. That’s what’s making me very pessimistic. Forget all of the things I learned growing up. Forget having read _The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich_. Forget _Seven Days In May_. Forget _A Face In The Crowd_. I thought that people would remember, but they haven’t. There is so much history, and so much evidence as to what is happening, that it can’t possibly be ignored. Except that it is. Willingly. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/214 "2024-11-19T03:04:06Z")
First, it’s no secret Trump believes the office of president is the exact same thing as emperor. Somewhere along the way, he heard the expression _imperial president_, and that’s the only bit of knowledge even tangentially related to Amemerican civics he’s retained. I think we should use _pharaonic presidency_ to describe his view of the office. Remember how much he was in love with executive orders? A line from the movie _The Ten Commandments_ perfectly describes what he thinks happens: “So shall it be written; so shall it be done!” Second, I’ve noticed a couple/few posters above have mentioned the Third Reich and the USSR did not use their militaries against their own people, but that third world countries have. In Trump’s mind, that doesn’t matter. There’s not a dictator on the planet now or in history he doesn’t love and want to be when he grows up. Third, I don’t remember if it was in this thread or another, but one poster mentioned the hatred enlisted members have for commissioned officers. In my experience, that’s just nonsense. Now my being enlisted while two of my brothers and my father being commissioned may have colored by view, but I don’t think so. Of course there might be some enlisted who hate officers, but I do not believe that to be the case in general (heheh). Lastly, what Trump is doing right now is creating a textbook example of how to get every other country on the planet to not work with you. To deport someone requires another country to agree to accept the deportee. The second Trump tries this “so shall it be written, so shall it be done” stunt again, every other country on Earth will close their borders to deportation from the United States. And if Trump tries to just drop the deportees in Mexico, then the Mexican authorities will arrest those American officials who dragged them into Mexico. What will Trump do next, start a war with Mexico? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/215 "2024-11-19T03:18:58Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > every other country on Earth will close their borders to deportation from the United States. … Leaving Trump no choice but to establish concentration camps. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/216 "2024-11-19T03:25:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > [@Monty](#): > > > > every other country on Earth will close their borders to deportation from the United States. > > … Leaving Trump no choice but to establish concentration camps. I’m sure Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon have a [solution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution) in mind for this eventuality. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/217 "2024-11-19T03:27:21Z")
Establishing concentration camps is already on his agenda. That’s how he’s going to start the depopulation. The only question is will he use stables like the last time America had such camps? _A note on terminology: Some people, ISTM, believe that “concentration camp = World War 2 Germany death camp”. Those WWII death camps were a subset of concentration camps; not all concentration camps are death camps._ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/218 "2024-11-19T03:38:52Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > A note on terminology: I am aware of the difference between concentration camps and death camps. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/219 "2024-11-19T03:39:47Z")
Sadly far too many other people are not. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/220 "2024-11-19T03:41:55Z")
Sadly, far too many people didn’t grow up with an interest in WWII and its causes, as I did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068.md?page=12)