# The Trump Administration: The Clusterfuck Continues (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 11, 2024, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068 "2024-11-11T06:19:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 302
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6082 "2025-06-22T16:22:20Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > the 7th Navy [Nitpick] I’ve seen this a few times. It’s actually the [7th _Fleet_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Seventh_Fleet). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6083 "2025-06-22T16:30:08Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > That is news to me. I thought this latest bombing was the first use of the MOP’s. Umm, might want to check the date that’s being referenced given that June 22, 2025 is as latest as latest can be. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6084 "2025-06-22T16:38:07Z")
Yep. I did not know the details. So 15 MOPs. And targeted tomahawks will ruin anyone’s day. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > attack was the United States’ first offensive action of the Israel-Iran war And not the last. Dunno where those tomahawks went yet I reckon they sent a clear message to the leadership (if they survived) ETA: The USA has been “helping” Israel and had certainly taken sides. Yet this would be like the USA sending B-17’s over Berlin in 1940. Tacit declaration of war (or we’re on the same side as the UK). ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6085 "2025-06-22T16:42:49Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > I reckon they sent a clear message to the leadership Yes, that the United States has, informally, declared war on Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6086 "2025-06-22T16:48:07Z")
> [@yendis](#): > > War has already been declared. When and by whom? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6087 "2025-06-22T16:58:57Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > Still, to me, the killing of US troops at Iran’s discretion is a new phase of whatever-the-fuck we’re going to call this. It can only end with capitulation by Iran or like the last helicopter out of Vietnam by the utterly defeated USA. Or Iran being genocided with nuclear weapons when it fails to submit. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6088 "2025-06-22T18:04:51Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > When and by whom? I don’t think we know the names of the people who dropped the bombs, but I think that their doing so is both the “when” and the “by whom.” ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6089 "2025-06-22T18:20:32Z")
“Midnight Hammer?” Did they first check to see if that name was already copyrighted by someone in the San Fernando Valley? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6090 "2025-06-22T18:50:30Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I don’t think we know the names of the people who dropped the bombs, but I think that their doing so is both the “when” and the “by whom.” I guess I’m hung up on the legal definition of declaring war. Yes, it is problematic that the US has consistently committed warlike acts without declaring war, but I think the distinction is sufficiently worthwhile to not use unnecessarily imprecise language. IMO it is silly to claim that a pilot dropping a bomb - or a soldier firing a shot - is a “declaration of war.” ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6091 "2025-06-22T19:00:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > [@Coriolanus](#): > > > > the 7th Navy > > [Nitpick] I’ve seen this a few times. It’s actually the [7th _Fleet_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Seventh_Fleet). 😉 And to pick yet another nit, the 7th Fleet had not yet been formed. The attack on Pearl Harbor hit units of the United States Pacific Fleet. Also, the carriers were not on maneuvers - Saratoga was finishing up a refit in San Diego, Enterprise had just delivered planes to Wake Island, and Lexington was on the way to Midway Island to do a similar delivery of planes. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6092 "2025-06-22T19:27:14Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > Not impossible. Yet not good. I reckon Hirohito or whomever decided this was a good idea - and the USA would sue for peace (not surrender - just say we’ll stay out of all the shit Japan is up to in Asia). Hirohito was a figurehead. If you want to blame the attack on Pearl Harbor on one person, it’d be Hideki Tojo, who was the Japanese Prime Minister at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6093 "2025-06-22T19:42:54Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > “Midnight Hammer?” Did they first check to see if that name was already copyrighted by someone in the San Fernando Valley? The hammer is his penis. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6094 "2025-06-22T19:48:24Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > IMO it is silly to claim that a pilot dropping a bomb - or a soldier firing a shot - is a “declaration of war.” It is an _act_ of war, as a result of which a _state_ of war may exist, whether or not it has been declared. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6095 "2025-06-22T23:05:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It is an _act_ of war, as a result of which a _state_ of war may exist, whether or not it has been declared. I agree. I just do not understand the benefit to characterizing it incorrectly. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6096 "2025-06-22T23:27:29Z")
[https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/iran-israel-us-latest-news?st=pho2b2](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/iran-israel-us-latest-news?st=pho2b2) Vice President JD Vance signaled that [Iran’s stockpile](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/iran-israel-us-latest-news/card/vance-indicates-iran-still-controls-enriched-uranium-stockpile-sjG8yvBdmJOC8RpQmAAe) of enriched uranium is still intact but also that the U.S. isn’t interested in destroying the regime. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6097 "2025-06-22T23:37:20Z")
He was pressured by the pro-Israel contingent - that was part of it. The other part of it is that he probably _thought_ Israel was kicking Iran’s ass so badly and that he wanted some of that for himself. Iran is landing some punches of its own, though. Iranian missiles seriously damaged the Tel Aviv airport, the port of Haifa, and a host of other targets. Sure, if you strictly compare the military performance of Israel versus Iran’s, Israel is winning, but that’s what they’ve been saying about the war in Ukraine (i.e., Russia’s incompetence). That’s not necessarily how war is won or lost. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6098 "2025-06-22T23:38:47Z")
So what now, then? Israel had already damaged a fair amount of Iran’s nuclear infrastructure. I thought this was about going after the enriched stuff. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6099 "2025-06-22T23:40:28Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > IMO it is silly to claim that a pilot dropping a bomb - or a soldier firing a shot - is a “declaration of war.” Certainly an act of war, and the UN Charter makes it clear you can’t do that unless there’s a specific imminent danger present. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6100 "2025-06-23T01:20:53Z")
Re: Pearl Harbor. My basic point(s) were that it was the furthest reach the Japanese Navy could do and they expected it to basically knee-cap the _United States Pacific Fleet_ enough that FDR and Congress would “Sue for peace” and let the Japanese do as they wished in Asia and the South Pacific. I don’t know how routine it is for the Enterprise and other ships like the Saratoga to not be harbored in Oahu, yet good fortune for the Navy / Bad Intel for the Japanese yet I’d have thought they would have liked to sink/damage the Enterprise. Tough Luck. And I know Hitler also was hoping for the UK to “Sue for peace” before/during/after the Battle of Britain and knew that notion was out the door once Germany declared war on the USA. I don’t know how binding “Peace suing” is - I suppose playground rules apply and take-backs will be called cheating. The Doolittle Raid basically said “We politely decline your offer and fuck you” The “War Powers Act” gives a lot of leverage to the President to conduct little wars especially if he only has to 'splain to a pliant Congress within 90 days. As both a peacenik & warmonger somehow all at once, any attack on a USA base by any country ought to lead to a Declaration of War, which love 'em or leave 'em, only Congress can do. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068/6101 "2025-06-23T01:23:59Z")
> [@natureboy](#): > > you can’t do that unless there’s a specific imminent danger present. This is from the Caine-Hegseth press briefing this AM (30 seconds). I wonder if they had to draw little mushroom clouds? > The president has looked at all the intelligence briefings and come to the conclusion that the Iranian nuclear program is a threat [https://youtu.be/SZyDPZyJlKM?t=1690](https://youtu.be/SZyDPZyJlKM?t=1690) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068.md?page=301) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues-part-1/1010068.md?page=303)