# The Trump era - what's surprised you the most? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246 "2018-06-17T03:38:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/101 "2018-06-19T05:46:57Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > My own father still supports Trumps’ policies. I don’t think he even knows what his policies are. That’s the most surprising thing to me. There was actually a great article in Politico today, which I think explains things we already kinda knew. [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/06/18/florida-senior-citizens-vote-election-2018-218758](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/06/18/florida-senior-citizens-vote-election-2018-218758) We’ve already talked about it, but Trumpists are fighting a culture war as much as anything else. “Their America” is slipping away, and they’re desperate to save it. Believe me, the most outrageous things that Trump does are going to be gold with these voters. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/102 "2018-06-19T06:09:11Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > … “Their America” is slipping away, and they’re desperate to save it. … How did you reach this conclusion? [More people believe the country is headed in the right direction today than almost any point in the last 10 years or so](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/direction_of_country-902.html). Do you imagine the people now answering that the country is heading in the right direction who previously told pollsters the opposite are liberals or conservatives? Trump fans or haters? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/103 "2018-06-19T06:14:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > … They love America in just a very superficial way. Do you have any _data_ to support this claim or is it just something you imagined? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/104 "2018-06-19T06:29:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you have any _data_ to support this claim or is it just something you imagined? The poll already posted about how most republicans support the separation of families while most Americans don’t. But we knew that you already did ignore it. I could also add polls about how most Republicans do not care much about America’s future when most Republicans are wrong about climate change and Economics when trade wars are the issue. [http://thehill.com/policy/finance/381863-poll-voters-fear-a-trade-war](http://thehill.com/policy/finance/381863-poll-voters-fear-a-trade-war) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/105 "2018-06-19T06:44:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > How did you reach this conclusion? [More people believe the country is headed in the right direction today than almost any point in the last 10 years or so](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/direction_of_country-902.html). Do you imagine the people now answering that the country is heading in the right direction who previously told pollsters the opposite are liberals or conservatives? Trump fans or haters? Not strange when people that have jobs now are answering that poll, that poll includes liberals and conservatives. But it also includes those superficial lovers of America. People that in reality are happy to see the institutions that made America great to be undermined. On a more optimistic note, one has to notice that there is no mechanism that omits from that poll people that do expect the law to catch up to Trump and to vote many Republicans out of office. They are also included in the poll and they are feeling happy that soon they will help guide the direction America should take. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/106 "2018-06-19T06:47:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The poll already posted about how most republicans support the separation of families while most Americans don’t. > > But we knew that you already did ignore it. I could also add polls about how most Republicans do not care much about America’s future when most Republicans are wrong about climate change and Economics when trade wars are the issue. > > [Poll: Voters fear a trade war | The Hill](http://thehill.com/policy/finance/381863-poll-voters-fear-a-trade-war) > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not strange when people that have jobs now are answering that poll, that poll includes liberals and conservatives. But it also includes those superficial lovers of America. People that in reality are happy to see the institutions that made America great to be undermined. > > On a more optimistic note, one has to notice that there is no mechanism that omits from that poll people that do expect the law to catch up to Trump and to vote many Republicans out of office. They are also included in the poll and they are feeling happy that soon they will help guide the direction America should take. You have some really far out ideas, but they’re entertaining to read, so please don’t change. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/107 "2018-06-19T06:56:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You have some really far out ideas, but they’re entertaining to read, so please don’t change. Speaking of entertaining, I have to be amused at you for falling for what Trump is telling many Republicans to “lovingly” adopt. Like if it was a policy to be encouraged; apparently, kids are wonderful… unless there are from asylum seekers, refugees or immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/108 "2018-06-19T11:47:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > How did you reach this conclusion? [More people believe the country is headed in the right direction today than almost any point in the last 10 years or so](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/direction_of_country-902.html). Do you imagine the people now answering that the country is heading in the right direction who previously told pollsters the opposite are liberals or conservatives? Trump fans or haters? As GIGO already alluded to, despite the fact that polls of the entire population (including Republicans) overwhelmingly disapprove of Trump’s border policy, Republicans, as a group, actually support it. This Gallup poll also shows that Republicans were highly dissatisfied with immigration levels in 2016, a factor which undoubtedly drove many Trump supporters to the polls. Not surprisingly, in the wake of the Muslim ban, the ICE raids, and now this, Trump supporters, while still dissatisfied with immigration levels, are more more content than they were 2 years ago. [https://news.gallup.com/poll/226175/republicans-dissatisfaction-immigration-down-democrats.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/226175/republicans-dissatisfaction-immigration-down-democrats.aspx) I didn’t need the polling data, though. There’s plenty of qualitative and anecdotal evidence to support this finding as well. All of this talk about Trump’s ability to connect with the white working class in Rust Belt states is interesting, and there’s no doubt that enough of this demographic defected from the Democrats to swing the election in Trump’s favor. But Trump performed best with white people whose incomes and wealth were higher than the average person’s. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/109 "2018-06-19T18:46:40Z")
Back to the OP … what’s surprised (and gravely disappointed) me is the failure so far of the Democrats to seize this once-in-a-generation opportunity and claim the political middle. By rolling over for Trump, the GOP has left the field wide-open for Democrats to promote sensible, workable, moderate solutions for healthcare, immigration, trade policy and … everything. Instead, all we’ve managed to do for the last year and a half is scream about how terrible Trump is. Yes, I know that minority status in Congress means that our sensible, workable, moderate solutions will be DOA. But we’re not even talking about them. And there’s a pretty important election in five months. If there’s still such a thing as a middle, it’s there for the taking. If not … well then, we’re fucked. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/110 "2018-06-19T19:15:00Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Back to the OP … what’s surprised (and gravely disappointed) me is the failure so far of the Democrats to seize this once-in-a-generation opportunity and claim the political middle. > > By rolling over for Trump, the GOP has left the field wide-open for Democrats to promote sensible, workable, moderate solutions for healthcare, immigration, trade policy and … everything. Instead, all we’ve managed to do for the last year and a half is scream about how terrible Trump is. > > Yes, I know that minority status in Congress means that our sensible, workable, moderate solutions will be DOA. But we’re not even talking about them. And there’s a pretty important election in five months. > > If there’s still such a thing as a middle, it’s there for the taking. If not … well then, we’re fucked. IMHO with the hurricane of lies coming from Trump and the Republicans in congress it is hard for Democrats to talk about the middle. Nevertheless, the polls are telling us that the support the Democrats are getting is increasing: > **[Generic ballot Polls](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/generic-ballot/)** > > The latest political polls and polling averages from FiveThirtyEight. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/111 "2018-06-19T19:35:13Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Yes, I know that minority status in Congress means that our sensible, workable, moderate solutions will be DOA. But we’re not even talking about them. Oh, I think we are, and always have. But our air time is getting squeezed out by the ongoing shitshow that is this administration, and by the nonparticipation these anti-Americans are forcing on us. There is certainly an issue with focus - there are so many, many things we need to do that we are constantly in danger of diffusion and fecklessness. We seem not to have ideas and plans because we have so many of them, while the Regressives can coalesce around a simple Fuck Off. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/112 "2018-06-19T20:32:41Z")
Also, moderate policies based on sober consideration of facts don’t get reported by the media because they don’t garner ratings. The go-to is “conservative” trashfires, because those get eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/113 "2018-06-19T20:51:59Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Also, moderate policies based on sober consideration of facts don’t get reported by the media because they don’t garner ratings. The go-to is “conservative” trashfires, because those get eyes. Yes, and if you look hard enough, you can even find Dem leaders floating [various incredibly boring proposals](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/18/17252714/democrats-medicare-buy-in-chris-murphy-jeff-merkley). But where is the effort to create the urgency that makes those proposals palatable? Where are the Democratic firebrands who should be saying, “Hey, you middle people, you’re getting screwed, and here’s how”? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/114 "2018-06-19T21:06:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That he still had supporters. Most people knew he was making promises he would never keep when he was running. But some people believed him. Okay, they were gullible - but you couldn’t prove they were wrong at the time because a Trump presidency was still just hypothetical. > > But now he is President and he’s proven we were right; Trump is failing as President. > > But he somehow still has a large base of supporters who believe him. Trump tells them he is doing a great job and they believe it. He tells them all the evidence that he’s doing terribly is just “fake news” and they believe him. He tells them things today that contradict what he said yesterday and they believe him on both days. He lies and lies and lies and lies and lies but he has people who believe everything he says. That’s what perplexes me the most; the huge amount of cognitive dissonance or outright stupidity that has to be going on in most of the Trumper heads. I mean, on paper these are people who are big proponents of Christian and family values, personal honor, looking out for the working man, venerate the military, etc… And yet Trump pretty much has shit on every one of these things in his time in office, some before the election even, and not only are these people not infuriated, but they’re just as loyal as ever. I guess they’re really that stupid that they believe this “fake news” stuff without reservation. I mean, everyone should be a little bit skeptical when it comes to the media, especially if it’s particularly partisan or in the pocket of some interest or other. But what makes this so perplexing, is that he’s accusing ALL the outlets save the conservative ones to be “fake news”, and they’re believing it. Well-respected news outlets with long histories of hard hitting investigative journalism and reputations for impartiality are getting accused of being “fake news” because they don’t agree with his policies. And these clowns can’t see how ridiculous, absurd and appalling that is! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/115 "2018-06-19T21:11:07Z")
Do you know what has really surprised(and disappointed) me about the Trump era? The number of self described moderate Republicans on the air, on this board and in real life who went from “Don’t worry your silly little heads-he CAN’T win” to “He may have won, but he is an ineffectual little ninny and Congress won’t let him get away with anything” to “What you did was _good_, Sir! It’s a _good_ life!”. It’s just disappointing, overall. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/116 "2018-06-19T22:58:43Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > IMHO with the hurricane of lies coming from Trump and the Republicans in congress it is hard for Democrats to talk about the middle. Nevertheless, the polls are telling us that the support the Democrats are getting is increasing: > > [Generic ballot Polls | FiveThirtyEight](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-generic-ballot-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo) Increasingly, there is no middle. A political spectrum that was once dominated by two major parties with different constituencies has been shattered, and replaced with tribes. Trump is breaking all norms, replacing political decorum with a gladiator presidency. He’s a gladiator putting on a show for all to see, and he knows that it has a visceral impact on people. His base has probably never loved him more. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/117 "2018-06-19T23:06:28Z")
Those who’ve shifted toward Trump support probably overlap almost completely with those who supported breaking the Geneva Accords under Dubya. People who believe terror works and support terror are perhaps also those responsive to terror. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/118 "2018-06-19T23:09:00Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > People who believe terror works are perhaps also those responsive to terror. Or false rumors of terror. Let’s call all brown people who do anything vaguely violent terrorists, while ignoring all the white people who shoot up schools, theaters, music festivals, etc. Gotta make the nervous nellies afraid of the brown people if we’re going to pull the ol’ Adolf. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/119 "2018-06-19T23:10:24Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s what perplexes me the most; the huge amount of cognitive dissonance or outright stupidity that has to be going on in most of the Trumper heads. I mean, on paper these are people who are big proponents of Christian and family values, personal honor, looking out for the working man, venerate the military, etc… > > And yet Trump pretty much has shit on every one of these things in his time in office, some before the election even, and not only are these people not infuriated, but they’re just as loyal as ever. It doesn’t make sense if we’re having an epistemic discussion. True, Trump is hardly a man of virtue. It’s obvious he’s a liar. It’s obvious he avoided the military and has a serious lack of business ethics. Their support for such a character makes sense because he’s fighting a culture war, and he’s fighting to preserve what they view as their kind of America: an America where you put yellow ribbon stickers on your bumper; an America where you put an American flag on your porch; an America that doesn’t protest police brutality or questionable foreign wars; an America that goes to church, or at least talks about a belief in a higher power; an America where people don’t borrow six figures to go to graduate school but instead save their money for their own home, and if they do borrow, it’s to start their own business; an America that doesn’t talk about racial problems because doing so is uncomfortable and it would just be better if we all conformed to “traditional” (i.e. white) values. > [@bump](#): > > I guess they’re really that stupid that they believe this “fake news” stuff without reservation. When they yell ‘fake news’ what they really mean is that the news is talking about issues that don’t affect them. Fake news is talking about problems they don’t have, and they probably assume that if others are having problems with police or finding work, it’s probably the fault of the individual or everyone in their community. “Well my great great grandparents came over as immigrants and they OBEYED IMMIGRATION LAWS!!!” – that didn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/120 "2018-06-19T23:14:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Or false rumors of terror. Let’s call all brown people who do anything vaguely violent terrorists, while ignoring all the white people who shoot up schools, theaters, music festivals, etc. Gotta make the nervous nellies afraid of the brown people if we’re going to pull the ol’ Adolf. This is one of Trump’s most troubling tendencies: the scapegoating in today’s tweets was something out of Nazi Germany. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246.md?page=7)