# The Trump era - what's surprised you the most? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246 "2018-06-17T03:38:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/161 "2018-06-21T20:46:40Z")
OK, no, really, then we drop this: Tax cuts? NO SURPRISE. Economic growth? Well, Trump keeps balking on full trade war, so yeah, cooler heads have prevailed. It’s sad that that’s a surprise to his _supporters._ You \*expected \*a recession and voted for him anyway? Nominating a justice? NOT SURPRISING. Yes, the USA/DPRK summit WAS SURPRISING. Fewer immigrants coming into a country with an anti-immigrant head of government? How ineffectual do you expect your politicians to be? Incredible. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/162 "2018-06-21T20:57:10Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > … What developments have most surprised you? I think the thing that has surprised me the most is how poorly the Democrats have done at winning President Trump over to their side on most issues. I had a genuine concern that President Trump, who I don’t consider someone deeply and philosophically committed to conservative ideals, would be swayed easily by some modest schmoozing and swing back to his NYC liberal roots. I thought the Democrats would make this a major effort: to win Trump over to their side. Instead, they seem to have taken the opposite approach and done a whole bunch of things that seem designed explicitly to alienate him and make an enemy of him. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/163 "2018-06-21T21:08:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > .lI had a genuine concern that President Trump, who I don’t consider someone deeply and philosophically committed to conservative ideals, would be swayed easily by some modest schmoozing and swing back to his NYC liberal roots. …And then he started building concentration camps for infants, and you knew he was no liberal? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/164 "2018-06-21T21:09:24Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > …And then he started building concentration camps for infants, and you knew he was no liberal? My understanding was that many / most of the “concentration camps for infants” were built during President Obama’s administration, but I’m open to reviewing evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/165 "2018-06-21T21:17:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > My understanding was that many / most of the “concentration camps for infants” were built during President Obama’s administration, but I’m open to reviewing evidence to the contrary. Really the whole thing is the fault of whoever built the abandoned Walmart where the children are now imprisoned, not the people who put them there. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/166 "2018-06-21T21:22:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Really the whole thing is the fault of whoever built the abandoned Walmart where the children are now imprisoned, not the people who put them there. Is this an acknowledgement that I’m correct about who was responsible for “building concentration camps for infants”? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/167 "2018-06-21T21:25:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Is this an acknowledgement that I’m correct about who was responsible for “building concentration camps for infants”? Your honor, I merely lured the women to the cabin, I didn’t build it. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/168 "2018-06-21T21:28:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You use “we”, but your opinion is hardly universal. 43% of the country approves of the job he has done so far. Then 43% of the country are racist assholes. At this point, this isn’t a “both sides do it” thing on which opinions can reasonably differ. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/169 "2018-06-21T21:31:25Z")
OK, now that we’ve established that it was not Trump who “started building concentration camps for infants”, I suppose we could move onto whether mistreatment of detainees started with him or was a pre-existing condition. Here is an LA Times article on the subject - [Ex-worker at Karnes immigrant detention center says she saw unethical behavior](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-olivia-lopez-karnes-detention-center-20150727-story.html): > [@](#): > > She said she saw a 5-year-old Central American girl, who had been raped and physically abused during the journey, lose weight at the detention center and start wearing diapers. > > When she reported the girl’s conditions to her boss, a psychologist, she said he discharged the girl with a note saying she was sleeping and eating better. When López submitted a note in response reiterating that the girl had lost weight, another supervisor told her she was mistaken. > > “I can discern an increase and a decrease” in weight, López said. > > When dozens of women at the detention center staged a hunger strike this spring, several of the leaders reported being placed in isolation in the medical unit with their children, an allegation López corroborated. > > López remembers her supervisor announcing that the warden wanted the hunger strike “ring leaders” placed in isolation. That story was published in 2015. Was the president at the time “evil”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/170 "2018-06-21T21:32:25Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > … At this point, this isn’t a “both sides do it” thing on which opinions can reasonably differ. I have no doubt you’d like for this to be true. It isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/171 "2018-06-21T21:36:18Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The US gave away some of the defense readiness of South Korea for a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises. On the plus side, the whores on Seventh Avenue are getting plenty of business. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/172 "2018-06-21T21:42:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > OK, now that we’ve established that it was not Trump who “started building concentration camps for infants” Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I have shown that my client neither designed nor built the gun, he merely discharged it in the schoolyard. And really, shouldn’t those parents have know what would happen if they took their children to school? The kids probably would have grown up to join MS13, anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/173 "2018-06-21T21:48:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m not sure what this has to do with what I said. I’m answering the OP’s question – I just stated facts Are you? That child molester: did Trump praise the molestation of the children? I very much doubt it. Indeed, has this child molester actually been convicted? I presume you’re talking about Roy Moore. I can find no report of his conviction or even arrest. Just because an accusation is made does not mean it is true. How many of your other statements will withstand scrutiny? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/174 "2018-06-21T21:49:36Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Then 43% of the country are racist assholes. At this point, this isn’t a “both sides do it” thing on which opinions can reasonably differ. We no longer have “both sides;” we have multiple sides. We live in a time of great dissonance. We’re fracturing as a society, with different types of conservatism and different types of liberalism. The factions are fighting with each other. The irony is that the Trumpian wing of the party is both simultaneously vulnerable on one hand, and at the same time increasingly capable of hijacking the entire country with a right wing takeover. And even if Trump ends up failing, it’s obvious someone else could take up that mission to hell. We’re not out of the woods if Trump quits, gets impeached, or loses in 2020. No more than we were when George W Bush left office and John McCain lost in 2008. We’re closer to the precipice. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/175 "2018-06-21T21:50:18Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Are you? That child molester: did Trump praise the molestation of the children? I very much doubt it. Indeed, has this child molester actually been convicted? I presume you’re talking about Roy Moore. I can find no report of his conviction or even arrest. Just because an accusation is made does not mean it is true. > > How many of your other statements will withstand scrutiny? Roy Moore was credibly accused of child molestation, and admitted to pursuing teenage girls. These are facts. That he wasn’t convicted doesn’t change the fact that he admitted to pursuing teenage girls and was credibly accused of molesting a child. Trump repeatedly praised and supported Roy Moore, endorsing his campaign for Senate. So my statement withstands scrutiny. But you still haven’t gotten at what the hell you’re talking about. I stated a series of facts, answering the OP. Why is this a problem for you? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/176 "2018-06-21T21:51:16Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Are you? That child molester: did Trump praise the molestation of the children? I very much doubt it. Indeed, has this child molester actually been convicted? I presume you’re talking about Roy Moore Yeah, that guy should have used a phrase like “credibly accused”, not “convicted”! What’s that? He did? Well, who has the time to read the posts we’re criticizing. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/177 "2018-06-21T21:55:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Was the president at the time “evil”? Your honor, my client may have murdered dozens of schoolchildren, but 5 years ago someone else may have done something bad, so really, why are you harassing him? ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/178 "2018-06-21T21:57:37Z")
I really did not think it would be as horrible as it has been. Trump seems determined to do the worst possible job possible. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/179 "2018-06-21T22:01:29Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > I really did not think it would be as horrible as it has been. > > Trump seems determined to do the worst possible job possible. I’m curious if you have any specific complaints or if it’s just this vague and amorphous feeling? For example, can you not imagine a worse way he could have handled the Syrian government’s (alleged) use of chemical weapons? Or is that one area where he hasn’t actually done the “worst possible job”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246/180 "2018-06-21T22:10:04Z")
I understand the facts that Trump unapologetically praised white supremacists, repeatedly and unapologetically praised and supported a credibly accused child molester, purposefully instituted a policy to traumatize children, in addition to bragging about sexual assault and violating the consent of women on two different occasions on tape, are probably painful for Trump supporters to admit (as well as reconcile their support with the possibility of being a decent human being), apparently to the point of feeling the need to distract with other issues, but these are facts, and my surprise that these facts don’t result in more Americans deciding they’re unable to continue to support such a morally bankrupt human being is only surpassed by my sadness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-era-whats-surprised-you-the-most/816246.md?page=10)