# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 103
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2041 "2019-10-07T16:13:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Moving data from one system to a more restricted system when not dictated by the classification of the document is really, really strange. For example, if system A is built to handle Secret documents, and B is built for Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information, a Secret document could be stored on either one — but taking it off system A to “hide” it on B would seem at first blush to be a red flag. As I’ve mentioned, people are not allowed to overclassify information just because it is embarrassing, they are supposed to classify information in relation to the damage it would cause to our national security if revealed. > > There have been press reports that this practice of hiding the call records is something that high-level staff in the White House would direct. This sounds like Chief of Staff, National Security Adviser, and so on. But there doesn’t seem to be a specific finger pointed at a particular person who made these orders. Either way, I don’t see the President himself being convicted for the move to an unusually secure server. Unless there is direct evidence such as a written order signed by the President, at worst (or best depending on your viewpoint) I see the high-level staff taking the fall. According to the executive order there should be clear written instructions from the Director of National Security that guide the use of Special Access Programs. If the server in question is in fact a SAP server, there should be clear written instructions detailing exactly who can put what information in and under what circumstances. If the memorandum(s) in question follow the program, the Director is responsible. If the memorandum(s) in question contradict the SAP instructions, a low-level staffer might be singled out. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2042 "2019-10-07T16:15:20Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > But in a new tactic, the White House plans to argue that U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi must have the full House vote to formally approve an impeachment inquiry, a source familiar with the effort said. > > Without a vote, White House lawyers believe Trump can ignore lawmakers’ requests, the source said, meaning the federal courts would presumably have to render a decision and potentially slow the march toward impeachment. " Legally speaking, I might agree with the White House position on refusing a subpoena if the House rules do not give the issuer the right to issue the subpoena. Outside of that situation, I don’t think the White House has a leg to stand on. It is true, the Constitution grants the House of Representatives as a whole the right to impeach the President. It is also true that the same document allows the House of Representatives to determine their own rules. If the rules of the House allow any single member or group of members to issue a subpoena for an impeachment inquiry, without having a formal vote or committee vote about starting the inquiry, then I would say the House as a whole gave their consent when they approved that rule. Not a lawyer, not a Congressperson, all of the above IMHO. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2043 "2019-10-07T16:16:58Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Don’t they already have the votes? All this would do is put Republicans on the record in contested districts as being against even an inquiry. It would also put Democrats in contested districts as being for an inquiry. Also of importance, the House of Representatives is currently in recess. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2044 "2019-10-07T16:18:44Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > He is the most corrupt president EVER. Full stop. The dumbest EVER. The most evil EVER. Modern history my ass, it’s all of history. I should have spotted you “The least sane EVER”. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2045 "2019-10-07T16:19:25Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The President can ask Congress to pass a targeted, one-off law that allows the FBI to make public all information about their investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden on this topic. > > But, likewise, he should do the same to himself. Perhaps a law that makes public all information about investigations to political candidates. I’m not going to comment on the desirability of such a law, but I think it would at least be constitutional. A law that targets the Bidens or Trumps specifically violates the Fifth Amendment, in my opinion. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2046 "2019-10-07T16:21:41Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > An investigation run by whom? > And looking into what? An investigation run by any part of the executive branch of the United States, looking into whatever crime they have a reasonable suspicion that the Bidens perpetrated. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2047 "2019-10-07T16:26:57Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > It’s pretty clear that you think that, first things first, Ukraine should have an investigation and then report back to us. And that that will determine Trump’s wrongness. Which, pardon me, is wacky, to be polite. No, specifically I think we would need at the very least articulated probable cause for an investigation for some act that violates U.S. law (or Ukrainian law if we have a law enforcement treaty, which I think we do). That needs to be in place and documented _before_ the President starts an investigation. Being that Mr. Trump asked Ukraine to start their own investigation, probable cause _and_ the inability to fully investigate without Ukrainian assistance needs to be in place before such a request should be made. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2048 "2019-10-07T16:35:06Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I wonder how they’ll rule. Will they rule that the president has “absolute immunity from criminal process of any kind.”? Gorsuch will be interesting. He is pretty focused on separation of powers. That mostly plays out on congressional delegated legislative powers and the executive taking power through rulemaking on vaguely worded legislation. This case is state vs federal executive so that separation may push him towards not supporting handover. When congressional subpoena cases start hitting though things could be very different. Congress exercising its specifically delegated check on executive power would seem to fit Gorsuchs notion of how the government is supposed to work. Even if this case goes Trump’s way Gorsuch might telegraph a giant bus coming in follow on cases in his opinion. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2049 "2019-10-07T16:43:23Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > As blind squirrels go, that lyin’ snake is a busy little beaver. > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Yeah, but don’t forget: > > _“Even lying squirrels are blind beaver-snakes twice an acorn.”_ I don’t think I’ve ever seen a riff on one of **VT** ’s masterpieces that had me laughing harder than the **VT** original. I’m impressed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2050 "2019-10-07T16:47:04Z")
Been away a bit, and just wanted to make one more reply before…see end of thread > [@Max\_S](#): > > I resolve this paradox by noting the indications that Mr. Trump did _not_ want to win the presidency. A Trump presidency has been a running gag since I was a wee lad, and while I’m not a huge fan of Michael Moore’s politics, a lot of what he theorizes makes sense. I thought about this too, but still say that once he won, however unexpected, he could have found a way out so he would not be put into a position that he could be blackmailed. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A non-sociopath with something like a conscience, a non-narcissist, knowing he was corrupt, would have such thoughts. But there is no evidence that Trump cares about anyone but himself and his family and sycophants. > > What other role would give him so much power to enrich himself and keep public attention on himself? Remember what kind of person he has shown himself to be. If you, like **Max S.** , start with the presumption that he’s psychologically normal, you’ll only end up bewildered. I agree that he probably cares only about himself and those you mention. However, I do not think he is a sociopath, even though he clearly has issues. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > It’s hard to fathom watching trump and not seeing stupid. There is a consensus that he didn’t think he was going to win the election. It was widespread and not just him, remember? So one may run for pres without even considering the ramifications of it, especially a person with trumps psychological profile. Yes, he is stupid. But what I said above applies here. > [@](#): > > “I asked for evidence that Trump is doing the bidding of a hostile foreign power.” And it was given to you. This is a lot of circumstantial evidence to just act like it hasn’t been given. You don’t seem to even acknowledge that it is relevant or exists. > > What you are actually saying is “I am asking for documentary evidence” but couching it as just simple “evidence” and then dismissing the actual reality of the investigation. > > If you ask your real question which is is there any documentary evidence, and you read the responses I’m sure they will be informative. > > Now you may have a problem with this but the law will go on (filling in the circumstantial evidence with documentary when revealed) and your issues don’t relate to the real investigation going on. I would prefer we not annoy others who are tired of our discussion. 🙂 Therefore… …in the interest of not mucking up this thread with this rather complex discussion, I’ve started [another one](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21902846#post21902846). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2051 "2019-10-07T17:12:16Z")
**[Trump turns to Breitbart in impeachment war](https://www.axios.com/trump-breitbart-fox-news-impeachment-2020-f3f94f8b-a09c-4f68-bc24-92973859a812.html)** > [@](#): > > With the exception of a small band of true believers like Sean Hannity and Judge Jeanine Pirro, President Trump has grown disillusioned with Fox News and often complains the network doesn’t have his back. > > \*\*Why it matters: \*\*Trump still watches Fox religiously, but he views such wobbliness as a particular problem during tough times like impeachment, sources close to him say. Into this breach has stepped more fervently loyal outlets, like Breitbart News. > > The website, often led by its Washington editor Matt Boyle and editor-in-chief Alex Marlow, has gone into 24-7 campaign mode against Trump’s impeachment. A representative Breitbart headline: “While Democrats pursue impeachment, President Trump builds impressive record of accomplishments.” > … Bold in original. Oops, now Breitbart is going to be running the country. Can Breitbart be accessed on TV? If it’s just on the internet, that may hinder some Trumpians from getting their orders. The upside: if Faux News turns on Donald, they might actually start reporting real news that is happening. Gradually, of course, so the Trumpians aren’t aware that they’re hearing the truth. A girl can dream… ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2052 "2019-10-07T17:20:10Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Ahem. > > “On Language” > > Or maybe that was just for linguistic/etymology geeks like me. I would have been happy to have appreciated that, but Bill was able to weave his smarmy political comments even into his etymological analyses. Screw Bill Safire. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2053 "2019-10-07T17:25:08Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > Even if Trump somecrazyhow pulled off the heist of the century and wins in 2020, if the left controls the Senate, they could finally hold him accountable. How is this for a cr-a-a-a-a-a-a-zy idea? This happens, and since Trump no longer has to work at being re-elected, he actually sits down with the Dems and really tries to _do something_ for the country? But I’m still hoping for my dream election: impeachment happens, Trump is most likely acquitted in the trial but it does enough damage to a few Rep senators who don’t vote against him, such as the Dems end up in control of everything. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2054 "2019-10-07T17:30:01Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > NY Times op-ed writer William Safire started the tradition with “Lancegate” — named after Carter’s budget director Bert Lance — In 1977. > > There has never been _anything cool_ about William Safire. The guy wrote Spiro Agnew’s speeches, for chrissake. As much as I hate to say it, “nattering nabobs of negativism” is really pretty fucking awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2055 "2019-10-07T17:44:04Z")
Awesome perhaps, but not _cool._ I was around when Spiro was in office, and he was _never_ cool. ---
**Author:** ![Fentoine\_Lum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fentoine\_Lum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fentoine_Lum)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2056 "2019-10-07T17:54:28Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > How is this for a cr-a-a-a-a-a-a-zy idea? This happens, and since Trump no longer has to work at being re-elected, he actually sits down with the Dems and really tries to _do something_ for the country? > > But I’m still hoping for my dream election: impeachment happens, Trump is most likely acquitted in the trial but it does enough damage to a few Rep senators who don’t vote against him, such as the Dems end up in control of everything. What changes as a result? Single payer/universal healthcare? We’ll close the concentration camps? We’ll end the endless war machine? College education for all? We’ll demilitarize law enforcement? We’ll reconnect worker productivity to worker compensation? No, none of that, watch. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2057 "2019-10-07T18:01:43Z")
> [@Fentoine\_Lum](#): > > What changes as a result? > > Single payer/universal healthcare? > We’ll close the concentration camps? > We’ll end the endless war machine? > College education for all? > We’ll demilitarize law enforcement? > We’ll reconnect worker productivity to worker compensation? > > No, none of that, watch. When I was much younger, I thought that political work consisted of criticizing the folks in power as loudly and vociferously as I could. Mission accomplished! I thought. As I grew older, I realized that such criticism was, and I’m not exaggerating here, completely goddamned pointless. The real political work consisted of getting into the struggle, rolling up my sleeves, and actually doing the work. It’s a lot harder than standing on the sides and shouting criticisms. I often fall short. But at least it accomplishes something. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2058 "2019-10-07T18:02:08Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > I would have been happy to have appreciated that, but Bill was able to weave his smarmy political comments even into his etymological analyses. Screw Bill Safire. [Willliam Safire Orders Two Whoppers Junior](https://www.theonion.com/william-safire-orders-two-whoppers-junior-1819565735) ---
**Author:** ![Fentoine\_Lum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fentoine\_Lum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fentoine_Lum)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2059 "2019-10-07T18:09:26Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > When I was much younger, I thought that political work consisted of criticizing the folks in power as loudly and vociferously as I could. Mission accomplished! I thought. > > As I grew older, I realized that such criticism was, and I’m not exaggerating here, completely goddamned pointless. The real political work consisted of getting into the struggle, rolling up my sleeves, and actually doing the work. > > It’s a lot harder than standing on the sides and shouting criticisms. I often fall short. But at least it accomplishes something. Well isn’t that how we got where we are? Appealing to our “leaders” for representation withing the rules of the system? If you think calling out reality is goddamned pointless I refer you to your media machine, which avoids objective reality as a mission. We as a citizenry have fallen short by “believing in” versus calling out the grand illusion. Calling out what we see is not part of falling short or goddamned pointless when the entire system ruins upon spectacle and illusion. Even now we’ve been conditioned to remind each other to color within the lines the system allows. Thanks anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2060 "2019-10-07T18:12:29Z")
> [@Fentoine\_Lum](#): > > Well isn’t that how we got where we are? Appealing to our “leaders” for representation withing the rules of the system? If you think calling out reality is goddamned pointless I refer you to your media machine, which avoids objective reality as a mission. > > We as a citizenry have fallen short by “believing in” versus calling out the grand illusion. Calling out what we see is not part of falling short or goddamned pointless when the entire system ruins upon spectacle and illusion. Even now we’ve been conditioned to remind each other to color within the lines the system allows. Thanks anyway. That’s not at all what I said, and it’s very mildly interesting that you decided to interpret in the way that allows you to continue with your current behavior without considering its efficacy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=102) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=104)