# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 111
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2201 "2019-10-08T21:32:37Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > Would this mean civil fines against trump himself? He’d just refuse to pay them. I doubt anyone is going to actually try to arrest a sitting president even though this one richly deserves such. Fine. Arrest everyone else. Whoever is left will get the message and start talking. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2202 "2019-10-08T21:34:55Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Is it true that the letter from Trump’s lawyers ended with the words “Now go home and get your fucking shine box?” They’d better hope not. The scene continued after that line. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2203 "2019-10-08T21:50:40Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > They’d better hope not. The scene continued after that line. I know, that’s the best part! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2204 "2019-10-08T21:52:56Z")
_wink wink, nudge nudge_ ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2205 "2019-10-08T21:58:06Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I don’t think that’s going to happen. Removal under the 25th Amendment is _more difficult_ than removal under the Article I impeachment process. The 25th Amendment requires both a majority of the Vice President and cabinet/other-body-provided-by-law and a “two-thirds vote of both Houses” (U.S. Const. art. XXV, § 4). Impeachment only requires a majority in the House of Representatives and “the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present” in the Senate. > > ~Max I didn’t say I thought it would be easier. I said that, if it became politically expedient to remove him, I think they might opt for the 25th Amendment rather than going along with impeachment. My reasons were in the post. They did not have anything to do with it somehow being easier than impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2206 "2019-10-08T22:08:11Z")
It should not be necessary to consider how to protect a whistleblower from Congress critters! (Paywall) > **[House Democrats consider masking identity of whistleblower from Trump’s GOP...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-democrats-consider-masking-identity-of-whistleblower-from-trumps-gop-allies-in-congress/2019/10/07/171a4b14-e927-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html)** > > House Democrats are considering obscuring the individual’s appearance and altering the voice, according to officials. > [@](#): > > House Democrats are weighing extraordinary steps to secure testimony from a whistleblower whose complaint prompted their impeachment inquiry, masking his identity to prevent President Trump’s congressional allies from exposing the individual, according to three officials familiar with the deliberations. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2207 "2019-10-08T22:10:13Z")
Our Democracy is a game who’s rules are laid out in the Constitution. Our form of government only works if everybody agrees to play by the rules. We do have a Constitutional crisis. The Executive branch has abandoned the rules. The normal (Constitutional) processes to remedy the situation will not work because the executive does not recognize them. Trump controls the DOJ so he doesn’t care what the Supreme Court does. The Republican Party appears willing to accept anything Trump does in order to stay in power. The Dems would be well advised to post a nightly fire watch in their chambers. A government shut down may be the only remedy ( unless the Republicans turn against Trump). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2208 "2019-10-08T22:28:43Z")
> [@](#): > > ``` > Justice Department lawyers used the example of Richard Nixon’s impeachment inquiry to argue that the House Judiciary Committee should be denied its request to obtain information about grand jury materials assembled under special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe of President Donald Trump. > Lawyers from the Justice Department surprised the judge, Beryl Howard, by arguing that the decision to release normally secret grand jury materials to the House in 1974, when Nixon faced impeachment, was incorrect. > The House is currently conducting an impeachment inquiry into Trump. > > ``` [LINK](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/justice-department-objects-to-house-getting-mueller-grand-jury-info.html). Real quote from the judge involved: “wow.” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2209 "2019-10-08T22:59:29Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > … > A government shut down may be the only remedy ( unless the Republicans turn against Trump). What kind of remedy is this? What does this correct? What does it accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2210 "2019-10-08T23:14:41Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > A government shut down may be the only remedy ( unless the Republicans turn against Trump). They won’t turn against Trump. Some of them may already be compromised to the point that they know that the end game for them is jail time if they turn on Trump. Others are spineless cowards. And others are hoping that in the future dictatorship, they will hold positions of extreme power that others can only dream of. There may also be a couple of True Believers among them. But only a few. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2211 "2019-10-08T23:24:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > They’ll send them a sternly worded email and that will be the end of it. > > Republicans are saying “fuck you” to the norms and to the legal processes. And getting away with it. So why would they not continue? They’ve said “fuck you” to the norms but not really the legal processes. Yes, they are delaying things in the courts, but if the WH starts violating court orders then Pelosi will start jailing people. Trump can get away with defying Democrats, but he won’t get away with defying both Democrats and the judicial for too long. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2212 "2019-10-08T23:29:37Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Yes, they are delaying things in the courts, but if the WH starts violating court orders then Pelosi will start jailing people. And how exactly will she do that when Barr is fully in on it, and the US Dept. of Justice will do nothing? Will she just march in herself with handcuffs and start jailing people? I fully expect that if Congress tries to do anything to enforce a subpoena, the DOJ or the Army will have Pelosi herself behind bars. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2213 "2019-10-08T23:31:27Z")
Public opinion is turning against Trump, most notably with independents. That’s the most powerful weapon we’ve got right now. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2214 "2019-10-08T23:39:38Z")
Trump is now going Full Nixon, and not cooperating with the legal investigation. He will be shredding, destroying any evidence he (or his minions) can find. This is how he has always rolled for his entire life. This is familiar territory for him. His loyal Republican lapdogs will go on the offensive, attacking anyone who gets in their way. Some differences with Nixon: Trump has a loyal member heading the DOJ, so that is not a problem for him. Trump has an entire network willing to lie and do anything for him. Trump has the majority of Senators who no longer have the independence nor the integrity of those in Nixon’s time. Trump has loyalists in the Supreme court that he put there himself. I expect that Trump will never cooperate, and will never suffer any consequences. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2215 "2019-10-09T00:03:27Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Trump is now going Full Nixon, and not cooperating with the legal investigation. He will be shredding, destroying any evidence he (or his minions) can find. This is how he has always rolled for his entire life. This is familiar territory for him. > > His loyal Republican lapdogs will go on the offensive, attacking anyone who gets in their way. > > Some differences with Nixon: > Trump has a loyal member heading the DOJ, so that is not a problem for him. > Trump has an entire network willing to lie and do anything for him. > Trump has the majority of Senators who no longer have the independence nor the integrity of those in Nixon’s time. > Trump has loyalists in the Supreme court that he put there himself. > > I expect that Trump will never cooperate, and will never suffer any consequences. Somehow, that server that Trumps phone conversations with foreign governments have been move to needs to be saved. Unfortunately, I doubt that can be done. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2216 "2019-10-09T00:07:05Z")
[The White House sent a letter to Pelosi, Schiff, Engel, and Cummings](https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/PAC-Letter-10.08.2019.pdf). You should read it. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2217 "2019-10-09T00:10:50Z")
“Due process,” huh? As in the legal world where subpoenas have teeth? Sure, let’s go there. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2218 "2019-10-09T00:15:20Z")
The ONLY reason Trump is stonewalling is because he has something to hide. And probably a lot. It’s not because Trump et al are worried about the precedent or the principle. They have neither. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2219 "2019-10-09T00:24:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [The White House sent a letter to Pelosi, Schiff, Engel, and Cummings](https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/PAC-Letter-10.08.2019.pdf). You should read it. It proves that Lincoln’s maxim about fooling some of the people all of the time can be proven true for the shrinking party of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2220 "2019-10-09T00:29:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [The White House sent a letter to Pelosi, Schiff, Engel, and Cummings](https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/PAC-Letter-10.08.2019.pdf). You should read it. I’m three pages in, and it’s such a crock of shit already. Does it get better? 1. The WH presumes to tell the House how to follow its own rules. That’s not actually their business. If the House has determined that it’s an impeachment inquiry, there’s no constitutional method by which the WH can gainsay that. To suggest otherwise is to trample on separation of powers. 2. The quote about fearing Trump’s re-election is 100% irrelevant. 3. Schiff’s paraphrase was obviously a paraphrase, and everyone–EVERYONE–knows that. This is a ridiculous point to harp on. 4. Trump’s claim that he “has no choice” but to refuse to cooperate is too silly to dignify with a response. 5. The idea that the inquiry phase requires the right to confront witnesses is similarly idiotic, and everyone knows that. It’s like suggesting that you don’t need to let the police into your house, despite their warrant, unless they tell you who tipped them off. Your right to confront witnesses happens at your trial, not during the investigation; and it’s confined only to those witnesses whose evidence is a direct part of the trial. That’s as far as I got. Three pages in, and nearly every point is a lie or a pitiful twist of the truth. Is there any page that’s not full of lies? Direct me to that one, and I’ll read it, but I’ll hold you accountable for any claim that it’s an honest page. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=110) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=112)