# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 132
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2621 "2019-10-13T01:19:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m wondering whether, and please don’t think I’m Nazifying the thread, there’ll be consideration of the “I’m just following orders” defense. As even Godwin could say, one should not be afraid of calling cosplay fascists what they are, and specially to followers of Agolf Twitler. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2622 "2019-10-13T02:01:26Z")
[Photo surfaces from 2014](https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/12/trump-lev-parnas-photo-giuliani-045137) of Trump and Lev Parnas standing together side by side. I suspect Republicans might try and spin this one by saying that Trump was asleep at the time, and didn’t know the other guy, who was a _The Apprentice_ superfan trying to get a picture. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2623 "2019-10-13T02:51:20Z")
[https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/12/politics/trump-threatens-sue-schiff-pelosi/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/12/politics/trump-threatens-sue-schiff-pelosi/index.html) > [@](#): > > Trump said he spoke to his lawyers about Schiff and told them, “Sue him anyway, even if we lose, the American public will understand.” > “And sue Nancy Pelosi,” Trump continued. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2624 "2019-10-13T03:24:56Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Photo surfaces from 2014](https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/12/trump-lev-parnas-photo-giuliani-045137) of Trump and Lev Parnas standing together side by side. I suspect Republicans might try and spin this one by saying that Trump was asleep at the time, and didn’t know the other guy, who was a _The Apprentice_ superfan trying to get a picture. Here one has to notice how unfairly many refugees or visa holders have been turned away thanks to enhanced vetting, ordered by Trump and henchmen, that includes looking at what friends or relatives did or even \*\*said \*\*against America in social media. It would be funny to find how social media could be part of Trump’s undoing, what is good from Politico is that they also checked other sources for the connections that Lev Parnas had with Trump. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2625 "2019-10-13T12:30:09Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Yeaaaah… if I was a general directing a war against even a very stupid enemy, I would be very suspicious if the enemy’s Order of Battle fell out of the blue sky right into my hands not once, but twice. Would you reconsider your “stupid like a fox” hypothesis if every time it happened, the enemy proceeded to follow their Order of Battle to the letter? ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2626 "2019-10-13T18:15:15Z")
This [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/10/06/trump-ukraine-investigate-rival-229341](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/10/06/trump-ukraine-investigate-rival-229341) article really annoyed me. > [@](#): > > In order to prove Trump abused his presidential powers to the point that he no longer can be trusted in exercising them—the constitutional standard for impeachment—Congress must establish Trump’s intent in making the request. Don’t the facts of the so-called investigation on their own point to Trump’s motives? [ul]He didn’t ask the FBI to investigate the corruption that so worried him.[/ul] [ul]He used a celebrity lawyer and the celebrity lawyer’s bungling flunkies to conduct the so-called investigation.[/ul] [ul]The spark for the so-called investigation was a right wing conspiracy theory with no evidence to support it.[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2627 "2019-10-13T18:22:49Z")
He asked for a quid pro quo in manufacturing evidence against Hunter Biden in a conversation with the Ukrainian President, known via a document relating to this call released by the White House as it’s official response to the criminal allegation, thereby proving said allegation… He asked China to investigate Hunter Biden, then immediately signaled collapse on the trade talks… ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2628 "2019-10-13T18:34:51Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > White House sends Ukraine talking points to Democrats. Again. Dumbshits gonna dumbshit. > > [https://thehill.com/homenews/house/465457-white-house-accidentally-sends-ukraine-talking-points-to-democrats-again](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/465457-white-house-accidentally-sends-ukraine-talking-points-to-democrats-again) Janitors and cleaning staff are smarter than anyone in Trumps administration. You know that Trumps password is ‘MAGA’. “Oh, what’s this?” ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2629 "2019-10-14T14:37:10Z")
Trump’s Syria blunder has given the Republicans their escape path. They have to dump Trump far ahead of the election and now they can. We will soon be getting propaganda about how fortunate we are that Pence is a noble and skilled statesman. Impeachment of Trump by the Democrats is a gift. I suspect that Romney has at least an agnostic attitude toward the Whitehorse Prophecy. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2630 "2019-10-14T14:43:22Z")
Rashida Tlaib (also known as a [“despicable human being”](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-labels-tlaib-a-despicable-human-being/ar-AAIICYv?ocid=spartandhp)) says that Democrats have discussed jailing White House officials who don’t testify. [From here](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/465551-tlaib-says-democrats-have-discussed-detaining-white-house-officials-who-dont): > [@](#): > > There have been actual serious conversations about what the logistics would look like … if we did have to force someone through a court order to come before the Congressional committee," she said. "This is pretty uncharted territory for many of us and even for Congress.” > Tlaib’s comments echoed those of Rep. John Garamendi (D-Calif.), who called for the House to do as much in a CNN interview earlier this week. > “I think it’s time to call in the sergeant-at-arms and march them off to our little jail, which we do happen to have,” Garamendi said on Wednesday. > “Let them sit there and cool off for a while,” he added. > In an inherent contempt proceeding, the House or Senate would have its sergeant-at-arms or a deputy of that person take someone into custody. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2631 "2019-10-14T14:51:21Z")
If someone disobeys a subpoena, a perp walk in handcuffs followed by the sounds of a cell door locking is a-ok in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2632 "2019-10-14T14:53:16Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > If someone disobeys a subpoena, a perp walk in handcuffs followed by the sounds of a cell door locking is a-ok in my book. There has to be a poena in subpoena, or else it’s more like an RSVP. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2633 "2019-10-14T16:55:26Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Rashida Tlaib (also known as a [“despicable human being”](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-labels-tlaib-a-despicable-human-being/ar-AAIICYv?ocid=spartandhp)) says that Democrats have discussed jailing White House officials who don’t testify. Yes… that’s _generally_ a known consequence of failing to heed the requests of the government to appear, whether in court or before Congress. Is this news to you? The very word “supoena” comes from two Latin phrases: \*subpoena duces tecum \* (show up with documents and evidence) or _subpoena ad testificandum_ (show up to testify). In both cases the word “subpoena” means _under threat of penalty_. What the heck did you think that meant? The issuing authority doesn’t HAVE to jail you for failing to comply “under threat of penalty” but it certainly CAN. That has always been the case, whether or you’re Joe average or a White House staffer. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2634 "2019-10-14T16:56:08Z")
From Cornell Law School’s [Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/subpoena): > [@](#): > > A subpoena is a written order to compel an individual to give testimony on a particular subject, often before a court, but sometimes in other proceedings (such as a Congressional inquiry). Failure to comply with such an order to appear may be punishable as contempt. Key word there is ‘compel’ which means there has to be a sufficient penalty available in order to compel a recalcitrant witness. Usually that means ‘testify or go to jail until you do.’ ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2635 "2019-10-14T17:04:28Z")
Okay, this is an admittedly naive question, and maybe a rhetorical one, but did FPT\* REALLY think that all he had to do was “forbid” people to testify and/or respond to subpoenas and NOBODY would disobey the Grand Poobah’s Orders from the Sacred Mountaintop?? I mean, seriously?? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2636 "2019-10-14T17:08:11Z")
Matt Gaetz, in what could easily be seen as an attempt to intimidate the witness, was told to get the hell out of the closed door session today. “An official working on the impeachment inquiry said Gaetz was booted because he does not sit on any of the committees conducting the impeachment investigation. “Pursuant to the House Rules and the House Deposition Regulations, only Members and designated staff from the three committees undertaking the joint investigation – the Intelligence, Oversight, and Foreign Affairs Committees – are permitted to attend and participate in a deposition,” the official told CNN. Gaetz “attempted to crash today’s deposition despite being ineligible and refused to leave, causing an unnecessary delay in the deposition,” the source added. " > **[The latest on the Trump impeachment inquiry](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/impeachment-inquiry-10-14-2019/index.html)** > > The House is moving forward with its impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2637 "2019-10-14T17:11:10Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Okay, this is an admittedly naive question, and maybe a rhetorical one, but did FPT\* REALLY think that all he had to do was “forbid” people to testify and/or respond to subpoenas and NOBODY would disobey the Grand Poobah’s Orders from the Sacred Mountaintop?? I mean, seriously?? Yes. I do think FPT really does believe he has that kind of power. He also is known to demand absolute loyalty from people, and anyone who doesn’t give that is thrown under the bus. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2638 "2019-10-14T17:21:40Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Okay, this is an admittedly naive question, and maybe a rhetorical one, but did FPT\* REALLY think that all he had to do was “forbid” people to testify and/or respond to subpoenas and NOBODY would disobey the Grand Poobah’s Orders from the Sacred Mountaintop?? I mean, seriously?? Trumps behavior seems to support that, yes. He does appear to believe exactly that. He asked the Danish PM to sell Greenland. He asked the Swedish PM to let an American accused of a crime go. I expect he asked Ukraine for dirt on the Bidens. There are probably more incidents like that that I’ve missed, anyone? But yes, he does appear to believe that executive powers work like an absolute monarchy. Or like executive powers do in authoritarian regimes. That may be why he gets along with dictators so much better. He seems to be trying to run things like they do, and gets surprised and frustrated when that doesn’t work for him. And he approaches the heads of democratic nations like thy can let criminals go on a whim, and are not bound by the laws of their nations. It is absolutely in character for him to try to just forbid people to testify. What is surprising is that he does not seem to have learned anything after this much time in his job. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2639 "2019-10-14T17:30:37Z")
It is just me, or has Guiliani been unusually silent for the past few days? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2640 "2019-10-14T17:41:02Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > He asked for a quid pro quo in manufacturing evidence against Hunter Biden in a conversation with the Ukrainian President… At the risk of pointing out the obvious, this claim is false. President Trump didn’t ask for any evidence to be “manufactured”; he asked for an investigation. And there was no quid pro quo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=131) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=133)