# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/261 "2019-09-25T17:44:52Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Serious Q…im obviously not a lawyer…is it a crime? And what’s the crime? Are we pivoting to the “it’s not technically a crime” defense now? Does this mean the “no quid pro quo” is officially over? Or can both be used at the same time? - I did not steal that cookie - Stealing the cookie is technically not a crime (soon) - The cookie did not taste very good anyway ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/262 "2019-09-25T17:45:52Z")
The crime is Bribery and it’s spelled out in the Constitution, guys. The Constitution is silent as to whether it’s the offering or taking of bribes, so we may assume both are valid. Art 2, Sec 4: “The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High crimes and Misdemeanors.” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/263 "2019-09-25T17:46:25Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > \*\*Precisely \*\*because of the kind of thinking illustrated PERFECTLY in **Annoyed** ’s posts: > The question is, how prevalent is this misguided refusal to see reality among voters? No, the real question is whether anyone who thinks like this ever really at risk for voting Dem. it’s not like they’re thinking “gee, if only the Dems hadn’t demanded a impeachment inquiry…totally would’ve been on Team Biden.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/264 "2019-09-25T17:47:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Obviously not (meaning that yes, this would obviously warrant impeachment). But it would be good to know whether this would be a crime if it were done by some random diplomat or other official – that might help an impeachment case be more successful, politically speaking. Meh. It may well be a campaign finance violation or bribery. But I think it is a mistake to try to analyze it as a crime. The application of those laws to this kind of conduct is never going to be so black-and-white as to satisfy skeptics, and it only reinforces the obviously incorrect notion that it matters whether it is a crime. The Mueller report talks about whether helping the campaign with information is a “thing of value.” Mueller thought it was. But it is an open question, legally speaking. It would be a big mistake to go down that rabbit hole again, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/265 "2019-09-25T17:48:27Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Meh. It may well be a campaign finance violation or bribery. But I think it is a mistake to try to analyze it as a crime. The application of those laws to this kind of conduct is never going to be so black-and-white as to satisfy skeptics, and it only reinforces the obviously incorrect notion that it matters whether it is a crime. > > The Mueller report talks about whether helping the campaign with information is a “thing of value.” Mueller thought it was. But it is an open question, legally speaking. It would be a big mistake to go down that rabbit hole again, IMO. Fair enough, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/266 "2019-09-25T17:49:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Are we pivoting to the “it’s not technically a crime” defense now? Are we mind-reading now? You could just answer the question at face value. That’s what “Serious question” means. It means, lets skip all the bullshit and answer the question please. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/267 "2019-09-25T17:50:58Z")
[Senate Republicans split over Trump urging Ukrainian leader to investigate Biden](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/senate-republicans-split-over-trump-urging-ukrainian-leader-to-investigate-biden/2019/09/25/48ec0e64-dfa6-11e9-be96-6adb81821e90_story.html) > [@WaPo](#): > > Several Senate Republicans were stunned Wednesday and questioned the White House’s judgment after it released a rough transcript of President Trump’s call with the Ukraine president that showed Trump offering the help of the U.S. attorney general to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden. > > One Senate Republican, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak candidly, said the transcript’s release was a “huge mistake” that the GOP now has to confront, even as they argue that House Democrats are overreaching with their impeachment effort. Side note: I know some people grouse about links to articles behind paywalls. Washington Post is doing some outstanding reporting on this whole thing, including a few scoops. If you’ve been on the fence about throwing some cash their way, maybe now’s the time? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/268 "2019-09-25T17:53:14Z")
Also you can be sure that every single angle and “rabbit hole” will be throughly explored by the most distinguished of scholars and constitutional experts. So i don’t think “What’s the crime”, “Is it a crime” and “Can one only be impeached for a literal crime” is off-limits _here_ in this bastion of non-partisan debate. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/269 "2019-09-25T17:54:06Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The White House mistakenly sent their [talking points](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/the-white-house-accidentally-sent-democrats-its-ukraine-call-talking-points.html) on how to downplay the call summary out to House Democrats. Four dimensional chess! Whoa. I had _no idea_ the Onion would go that far to make a joke. Changing their website branding and all just for a wacky story. Bravo! Oh, wait…Ha! What a bunch of maroons. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/270 "2019-09-25T17:54:09Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If you guys had so much support you wouldn’t need Russian assistance, Ukrainian assistance, voter suppression and purges, gerrymandering, dirty NRA money etc to squeak out a victory based on a few tens of thousands of votes in 3 states. And you still lost by 3 MILLION votes. 3,000,000 votes. > > If what you say is true, then lets have a true open election, no interference, no shenanigans, everybody votes, every vote counts. Let’s do that and see how badly your side gets trounced. Unless you are willing to do that, you should go ahead and shut up about the last election and the things your side stole as a result. Even Moscow Mitch knows this. He has said that making voting readily accessible works in favor of Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/271 "2019-09-25T17:56:07Z")
Republicans: There is no crime to investigate without explicit magic phrases of quid pro quo. Also Republicans: Biden needs to be investigated because of vague connections for his son working in Ukraine or something. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/272 "2019-09-25T17:57:37Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Also you can be sure that every single angle and “rabbit hole” will be throughly explored by the most distinguished of scholars and constitutional experts. So i don’t think “What’s the crime”, “Is it a crime” and “Can one only be impeached for a literal crime” is off-limits _here_ in this bastion of non-partisan debate. I am not suggesting it is off limits. I am suggesting that before we go there we ought to acknowledge that it doesn’t matter and that “technically, the element of U.S.C. 23452(c)(3) isn’t satisfied if it happened on Wednesday” will be how Trump defenders try to defend the indefensible. I’m all for an academic discussion of federal crime. I just think we ought to do a little place-setting first. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/273 "2019-09-25T17:58:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The crime is Bribery and it’s spelled out in the Constitution, guys. The Constitution is silent as to whether it’s the offering or taking of bribes, so we may assume both are valid. > > Art 2, Sec 4: > > “The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High crimes and Misdemeanors.” Sounds more like extortion. i point this out only because 1. If it gets bad for Trump enough you can be sure this distinction will be made. 2, “I did not attempt to bribe the man. I can prove it because it was extortion.” is a hilarious defense. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/274 "2019-09-25T17:59:29Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Serious Q…im obviously not a lawyer…is it a crime? And what’s the crime? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “High crimes and misdemeanors” is not specifically defined in the Constitution, and thus it’s up to Congress (when it comes to the President). If you’re asking if this would be a crime for some random non-Prez official to do, I don’t know the answer. **iiandyiiii** took my answer. I dunno if it’s a crime. I’m just hoping (in spite of everything I’ve seen over the past four years) that enough Republicans think it’s bad enough to remove Trump from office. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/275 "2019-09-25T17:59:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I am not suggesting it is off limits. > > I am suggesting that before we go there we ought to acknowledge that it doesn’t matter and that “technically, the element of U.S.C. 23452(c)(3) isn’t satisfied if it happened on Wednesday” will be how Trump defenders try to defend the indefensible. > > I’m all for an academic discussion of federal crime. I just think we ought to do a little place-setting first. Ahh. Gotcha (no sarcasm) ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/276 "2019-09-25T17:59:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Senate Republicans split over Trump urging Ukrainian leader to investigate Biden](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/senate-republicans-split-over-trump-urging-ukrainian-leader-to-investigate-biden/2019/09/25/48ec0e64-dfa6-11e9-be96-6adb81821e90_story.html) > > Side note: I know some people grouse about links to articles behind paywalls. Washington Post is doing some outstanding reporting on this whole thing, including a few scoops. If you’ve been on the fence about throwing some cash their way, maybe now’s the time? Perhaps, but could you answer one question about this from the story. Are the Reps not questioning the judgement of the \*release \*of the partial transcript? That is, the precedent it sets? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/277 "2019-09-25T18:03:18Z")
The article strictly talks about questioning the release of the partial transcript, not questioning the president’s “Nice aid package you got, shame if something happened to it” rhetoric within the call. They’re concerned about campaign strategy, not about national security or governmental ethics. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/278 "2019-09-25T18:03:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > > Side note: I know some people grouse about links to articles behind paywalls. Washington Post is doing some outstanding reporting on this whole thing, including a few scoops. If you’ve been on the fence about throwing some cash their way, maybe now’s the time? No, fuck them, I hate paywalls. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/279 "2019-09-25T18:04:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, fuck them, I hate paywalls. Have a cookie! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/280 "2019-09-25T18:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by TroutMan > The White House mistakenly sent their talking points on how to downplay the call summary out to House Democrats. Four dimensional chess! > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Whoa. I had _no idea_ the Onion would go that far to make a joke. Changing their website branding and all just for a wacky story. Bravo! > > Oh, wait…Ha! What a bunch of maroons. 🙂 That “mistake” has GOT TO BE deliberate on the part of a staffer who has just had enough of the bullshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=15)