# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 168
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3341 "2019-10-26T22:49:15Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > If Kelly believes this (from previous post): > then he is almost as delusional as FPT\*. NOTHING that has happened in the past three years supports the premise that DJT is capable of taking advice, PARTICULARLY when that advice tells him he is wrong. I think that the key to it is telling him that it’s illegal and not doing it. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3342 "2019-10-26T23:19:22Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly [has spoken about Trump](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/i-feel-bad-that-i-left-john-kelly-warned-trump-he-would-be-impeached): > > The White House [has responded](https://twitter.com/Kevinliptakcnn/status/1188208180410638341) to Kelly’s comments, via White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham: "“I worked with John Kelly, and he was totally unequipped to handle the genius of our great President.” All this talk of Trump’s genius recently as his administration seeks to equate the Executive with the Law, is reminiscent of the [Fuhrer Principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrerprinzip) (_Führerprinzip_). Believing in Hitler’s unique genius made it easier for Germans to accept his word as supreme in all cases. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3343 "2019-10-26T23:20:28Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > Thanks for clearing that up for me. I couldn’t find any information about constitutional immunity because he pulled the concept out of his ass. I should have realized that before I asked you good people. This is the original article I read: > [https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/25/politics/impeachment-witness-house-investigators-lawsuit/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2Fpolitics](https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/25/politics/impeachment-witness-house-investigators-lawsuit/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2Fpolitics) > > Neither of these articles explains constitutional immunity, or clears up that it isn’t even a real thing. I hope whatever judge hears the suit asks the lawyers what the Sam Hill they are even talking about. Well, I suppose to be fair to the press, it’s not their job to offer opinions on the law or its validity. But the reason a Google search doesn’t yield pages and pages of references to constitutional immunity is because… it hasn’t been asserted until now. The court of jurisdiction is (naturally) the same court that issued the ruling I noted yesterday in Post #3310, before Judge Beryl Howell, who sits as the Chief Judge in that district court. It doesn’t necessarily mean she will hear this matter. I’m not sure how they assign cases, but reading through a list of the current judges, I recognize a lot of names who have issued predictable rulings within the norms of traditional justice. I note there are 4 Trump appointees on that bench at present on a bench of 25. And even if one of them is drawn to hear this case, it doesn’t mean they will feel beholden to rule in Trump’s favor just because he appointed them. That’s not how judicial appointments are meant to work. It’s also worth noting that in their prayer for relief [in the pleading](https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.212284/gov.uscourts.dcd.212284.1.0.pdf), Kupperman’s lawyers asked for very specific things: 1. A ruling as to whether the subpoena issued is valid; 2. **A ruling as to whether Trump’s assertion of immunity is valid** ; (emphasis mine) and 3. An expedited ruling. The Defendants’ responses should be a fun read, and I look forward to the court’s expedited ruling. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3344 "2019-10-26T23:31:39Z")
All I can think of, in terms of “Constitutional Immunity” that isn’t “executive privilege” is the right against self-incrimination - if we extend the Executive to cover all of its employees. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3345 "2019-10-26T23:34:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > All I can think of, in terms of “Constitutional Immunity” that isn’t “executive privilege” is the right against self-incrimination - if we extend the Executive to cover all of its employees. Yup. Which means comply with the subpoena and appear, then plead the Fifth. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3346 "2019-10-27T00:09:54Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Yup. Which means comply with the subpoena and appear, then plead the Fifth. But can the Executive order his employees to do that? (Safe bet is ‘No. Teh lolz.’) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3347 "2019-10-27T00:20:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But can the Executive order his employees to do that? (Safe bet is ‘No. Teh lolz.’) That’s a safe bet. It’s the right against _self_-incrimination. The so-called Executive doesn’t get to assert it on anyone’s behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3348 "2019-10-27T02:23:16Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Yup. Which means comply with the subpoena and appear, then plead the Fifth. Can’t they just give immunity to the one they think might have the most to spill, eliminating the possibility of self-incrimination? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3349 "2019-10-27T02:49:49Z")
[Breaking via WSJ](https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1188259084115628032): > [@](#): > > Gordon Sondland told House committees last week that efforts by Trump and his allies to press Kyiv to open investigations in exchange for a White House meeting with Ukraine’s president amounted to a quid pro quo, his lawyer said. [Josh Barro](https://twitter.com/jbarro/status/1188266677043126273), _NYMag_: > [@](#): > > Area Ambassador Did Not Pay a Million Dollars to Go to Prison ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3350 "2019-10-27T03:30:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can’t they just give immunity to the one they think might have the most to spill, eliminating the possibility of self-incrimination? This is one of many things I despise about this “administration.” They use terms that people recognize but don’t really understand and try to create some alternative interpretation of the term favorable to Trump. Yes, there is such a thing as blanket immunity that works in a way like you describe. It can be granted by a law enforcement agency such as the FBI, when they work to build a case to ensnare a bigger fish. Also referred to as Queen for a Day, such as when the FBI offered blanket immunity to Trump’s accountant, Allen Weisselberg, in order to obtain more information about Trump, Michael Cohen and National Enquirer’s David Pecker and their catch and kill activities. “Tell us everything you know about criminal activity you committed with Trump, Cohen and Pecker, leaving nothing out, and we will grant you blanket immunity for your own criminal activity in this matter in exchange for your testimony against Trump, Cohen and Pecker.” But Trump can’t claim “blanket immunity” or “constitutional immunity” or whatever else he wants to call it in an effort to prohibit the House committees from carrying out their lawful oversight responsibilities and protect _himself_. The House committees aren’t acting as a law enforcement agency – at least, I don’t believe they are. They’re conducting an investigation into whether impeachable offenses were committed by one corrupt person who currently occupies the Oval Office. If they learn crimes were committed by other involved persons who are summoned to testify, in ordinary circumstances they would refer those matters to DOJ for formal charges. I don’t know what happens as things stand now. The US Attorney’s Office in DC is headed up by a Trump appointee. Again, Trump is trying to claim “blanket immunity” for himself and all within his administration. It doesn’t work like that. What he _can_ claim is executive privilege – but as I said previously, it’s not a blanket privilege and never has been. He can’t use it to hide his crimes. He and his Republican buddies are using these terms in an effort to muddy up the understanding about what he is allowed to do, so he can create narratives his followers will swallow. Congressional Republicans know this. It is the height of hypocrisy and abuse of their offices to perpetuate such misrepresentations. They make me sick. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3351 "2019-10-27T04:15:26Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I concur that what was found did appear to be a large mound of fecal matter, and yes, a large bull was observed by multiple credible witnesses to be walking away from the pile with a satisfied look on his face. However, we cannot yet rule out the argument, put forth from the bull and his spokescattle, that a rogue gang of squirrels stacked their own turds in an effort to discredit the bull because they hate bovines and want to destroy everything the bull has accomplished— which, by the way, is more than any other bull has ever done, despite what the fake farm reports claim. #BrahmanHoax #NoExcretion Posts like this make me wish I had the authority to bestow MacArthur genius grants. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3352 "2019-10-27T04:31:24Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > All this talk of Trump’s genius recently as his administration seeks to equate the Executive with the Law, is reminiscent of the [Fuhrer Principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrerprinzip) (_Führerprinzip_). Believing in Hitler’s unique genius made it easier for Germans to accept his word as supreme in all cases. And we all know how well _that_ worked out for them! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3353 "2019-10-27T05:06:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Posts like this make me wish I had the authority to bestow MacArthur genius grants. I would gladly do it, but I would want a cut. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3354 "2019-10-27T05:49:57Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I’ll have to stop you there, because a court doesn’t issue a final order without first hearing objections from the other side. > > ~Max Yes, and? Of course there will be arguments on both sides. I have yet to hear any argument that would mean they could disobey the subpoena. And I think the possibility of a winning argument on that is exceedingly slim. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3355 "2019-10-28T19:33:10Z")
House is [readying an impeachment resolution](https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1188900000870350849) for a vote as early as this week. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3356 "2019-10-28T19:38:30Z")
[Ed O’Keefe](https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1188902063356469251), _CBS News_: > [@](#): > > JUST IN: @SpeakerPelosi says the House will vote Thursday to formalize the impeachment inquiry that “establishes the procedure” for the ongoing investigation. Letter to colleagues obtained by @RebeccaRKaplan: ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3357 "2019-10-28T19:42:53Z")
Nancy Pelosi: “We are taking this step to eliminate any doubt as to whether the Trump Administration may withold documents, prevent witness testimony, disregard duly authorized subpoenas, or continue obstructing the House of Representatives.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3358 "2019-10-28T20:08:38Z")
I dig it. Take away all Republican excuses. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3359 "2019-10-28T20:11:10Z")
Bold prediction: Republicans will continue to obstruct. ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3360 "2019-10-28T20:12:12Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > I dig it. Take away all Republican excuses. Eh, they’ll just come up with five or six more. And run through them all. By Friday we’ll have a tweet saying “The vote was improper! Sloppy Nancy and Liddle’ Schiff didn’t dot an I in the memo!” Or something\*. - I don’t speak Trump well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=167) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=169)