# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 178
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3541 "2019-10-31T00:00:59Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > He is possibly signaling his willingness to testify w/ a subpoena so he can CYA. Whose ass? Kolak from Twilo might not even have one, being an alien. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3542 "2019-10-31T00:34:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Does anyone even care about who the whistleblower is at this point? Everything they have said has been completely corroborated. … > [@bobot](#): > > Republicans do. They want him/her outed so they can make his/her life hell. To protect Donald Trump. It’s all quite honorable. > [@jayjay](#): > > Only some Republicans. The desperation behind trying so hard to get the name after the horse is already out of the barn is telling me they’re just looking for some way to get revenge. It’s not only revenge—it’s (as E.P.'s post went on to say) witness intimidation. It’s to make sure that _anyone_ who knows something Trump has done or said that _must_ stay hidden… …_and there must be, quite literally, hundreds of such people_… …will keep their traps shut, on pain of getting what The First Whistleblower will get if his-or-her name is revealed. The sight of all these officials walking right into Congress and telling what they know, with no obviously-immediate consequences, has the effect of encouraging others to come forward. _And that must be stopped_. (That’s what the American Right has been reduced to: cheap hoods out of cheap gangster stories. Thugs.) ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3543 "2019-10-31T00:37:49Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Whose ass? Kolak from Twilo might not even have one, being an alien. Other than the two extra eyes on the back of my head and missing thumbs you would never know. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3544 "2019-10-31T00:48:38Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > Ken Starr: > Yes, THAT Ken Starr. > > There’s a whole lot of “Do as I say, not as I do,” going around with Republicans who were responsible for the Clinton impeachment. He advocates censuring Trump at most, because impeachment is bad for our democracy. Unless you lie about a blowjob, I guess. > -from The Washington Post > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/29/suddenly-ken-starr-doesnt-like-impeachment-so-much/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/29/suddenly-ken-starr-doesnt-like-impeachment-so-much/) They need to be made to wear scarlet "H"es on their chests. For “Hypocrite,” obviously. > [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > …Republicans haven’t left Trump because, by and large, he’s a mainstream Republican. He’s doing what other Republicans either have done or would have done if they thought they could get away with it. **The only thing that sets him apart is the tweets and obvious mental impairment.** This is what Republicans have been for years. I agree that Republicans have, for many years, put into action “power at any cost” and other similarly integrity-free approaches to political action. (The Nixonian ‘Southern Strategy’ being an obvious example.) But I don’t agree that Trump isn’t set apart by anything other than tweets and brain damage. There was no “cult of George W. Bush,” for instance. What makes the cult of Trump important is: a) that it motivates fans to get out and vote in elections at all levels—fans who may have been less driven to vote back in the days of W or his father, and b) that it inspires fanatical scrutiny of legislators (both state and federal), to enforce their lockstep support of Trump, by those same Trump fans. The reason for the cult, of course: Trump’s just-a-hair-off-of open white supremacism, anti-immigrant fervor, and general ‘biggest bully on the block’ claims. my bolding in quotation ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3545 "2019-10-31T01:28:23Z")
It sounds like the interesting testimony today was in the Senate where Under-Secretary of State John Sullivan was testifying at his hearing in front of the Foreign Relations Committee since he has been tapped to be the next Ambassador to Russia. He confirmed that Giuliani was orchestrating the smear campaign against Yovanovitch per Trump’s instructions. I would offer this as exactly why GOP Congress members should think twice about forcing public hearings in the House. They can’t possibly be happy with what Sullivan said. Any odds on how quickly POTUS withdraws his nomination? > **[Deputy Secretary of State John Sullivan breaks with Trump on Biden probe...](https://www.upi.com/amp/Top_News/US/2019/10/30/Russian-ambassador-nominee-breaks-with-Trump-on-Biden-probe-request/6711572464109/)** > > Deputy Secretary of State John Sullivan told lawmakers Wednesday that asking a foreign government to investigate a political rival wouldn't be "in accord with our values," breaking from President Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3546 "2019-10-31T01:34:31Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > It doesn’t. It’s a Republican way of saying: Nevermind that, look over here at this instead. > The specific thing Trump did was ask a foreign government to investigate a US citizen for him. And that is absolutely a violation of his oath to this country and our constitution. With an implied threat to continue to withhold congressionally approved aid to help Ukraine fight off the Russians. The Russians that his son and son in law met with. The Russians that clearly helped him win the election. The Russians that he trusts over our own intelligence services. The Russians that the Trump family gets money from. The Russian President that he has had at least one meeting with while President with out an American interpreter was not there. The Russians that buy properties from him at inflated prices. The obstruction of justice while admitting on national TV that he fired the director of the FBI because of the Russian investigation. The additional 7 counts of obstruction of justice into the investigation. Trump makes Nixon look like a boyscout. It’s crazy. Not to mention that Trump is a racist moron, and the 20 accusations of sexual misconduct and campaign violations. I could go on. Trump is as dirty as they come. I lay the blame at the feet of his base supporters. The people that enable and applaud this criminal activity, and social… turpitude. I call it treason. Some want to argue the constitutional definition of treason. Fine. Put him away for all the other crimes. But put him away. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3547 "2019-10-31T01:50:12Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I suspect Bolton wants to wait until the Thursday meeting about Kupperman’s request to get a ruling on which branch of government he has to obey. and if he has to obey Congress and testify, then he has a hard decision to make. Who does he hate more - Trump or Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3548 "2019-10-31T02:07:06Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Any odds on how quickly POTUS withdraws his nomination? > [@](#): > > Lying John Sullivan begged me like a dog to be ambassador. I told him “NO!” and he broke down in tears. Too BAD! MAGA! … ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3549 "2019-10-31T03:05:47Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Whose ass? Kolak from Twilo might not even have one, being an alien. How do you know that? There could be a town called Twilo in Kansas, or Nebraska, or something… ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3550 "2019-10-31T12:46:52Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > and if he has to obey Congress and testify, then he has a hard decision to make. Who does he hate more - Trump or Democrats? I know Bolton is a hard right conservative, but many conservative and liberal politicians consider themselves friends, just disagreeing on policy. Has he actually gone on record implying or saying that he hates Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3551 "2019-10-31T12:49:50Z")
I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like Bolton wants to testify. “You know, if you were to issue a subpoena I’d have to come in and talk, right?” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3552 "2019-10-31T13:03:12Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > How do you know that? There could be a town called Twilo in Kansas, or Nebraska, or something… How can someone masturbate like a motherfuck without thumbs? We should have a bake sale, or something, ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3553 "2019-10-31T13:03:42Z")
I agree. It seems to me that Bolton doesn’t want to appear to be willing to do the Democrats’ bidding, but would be more than happy to stick it to Donald if compelled to do so. The next 4-6 weeks will be where the tide turns in public opinion. Getting credible witnesses questioned by professional counsel rather than grandstanding politicians in public hearings is going to make or break the case. I’m betting that outside the Fox bubble, hearing these witnesses speak on simple issues and repeated on the nightly news and quoted on news sites will move public opinion from current say 50% in favor of conviction to maybe 70%. When Republican Senators see their numbers start to drop, they will make the calculation that to save themselves they have to ditch the dead weight in the Oval Office. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3554 "2019-10-31T13:31:25Z")
Even as it stands, if all they have is Trump’s base, they probably can’t win. But if they don’t have Trump’s base, they don’t even have _that_ much of a chance. The technical term in political science is “boned”. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3555 "2019-10-31T13:47:00Z")
IF, and it is a big if, the presentation convinced all but that 35% of the voting population base of the actual high crimes this is, then each district and state GOP critter would have an individualized assessment to make. Which way are they less screwed? But for some it’s clear: dump Trump and you’re a primary crump chump. Don’t and you get the nom to be a gen election bomb … Honestly some might just retire at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3556 "2019-10-31T14:48:22Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like Bolton wants to testify. “You know, if you were to issue a subpoena I’d have to come in and talk, right?” > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Sorta curious what the comment from Bolton’s lawyer neans. Is it possible Bolton won’t testify voluntarily but is signaling he will show up if subpoenaed? Bolton’s lawyer is signalling that Bolton is eager for an invitation to testify in the form of a subpeona and, if subpeonaed, Bolton will not let assertions of executive privilege stop him from testifying. I don’t think Bolton is taking this stance because he wants to say things that will please Trump. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > I agree. It seems to me that Bolton doesn’t want to appear to be willing to do the Democrats’ bidding, but would be more than happy to stick it to Donald if compelled to do so. > > The next 4-6 weeks will be where the tide turns in public opinion. Getting credible witnesses questioned by professional counsel rather than grandstanding politicians in public hearings is going to make or break the case. I’m betting that outside the Fox bubble, hearing these witnesses speak on simple issues and repeated on the nightly news and quoted on news sites will move public opinion from current say 50% in favor of conviction to maybe 70%. When Republican Senators see their numbers start to drop, they will make the calculation that to save themselves they have to ditch the dead weight in the Oval Office. Trump’s approval rating shows almost no sensitivity to headlines. At no point in his administration has his approval rating dropped below 37%. It only dropped that low during the government shutdown.Trump’s base seemingly comprises overwhelmingly low information voters. My guess is that weeks of hearings might push his approval rating down to 34%. I figure he has no chance of conviction in the Senate unless more than half of Republican voters disapprove of him. That means roughly 25% approval ratings overall, in a world where basically every Democrat already disapproves and the number of high-information Republicans simply dwindles out of sheer embarrassment. The greatest benefit of the impeachment proceedings will be to create a contemporaneous record of the worst administration in U.S. history. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3557 "2019-10-31T14:51:00Z")
> [@Running\_with\_Scissors](#): > > I know Bolton is a hard right conservative, but many conservative and liberal politicians consider themselves friends, just disagreeing on policy. Has he actually gone on record implying or saying that he hates Democrats? Perhaps I should have said liberals instead. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3558 "2019-10-31T15:01:49Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Bolton’s lawyer is signalling that Bolton is eager for an invitation to testify in the form of a subpeona and, if subpeonaed, Bolton will not let assertions of executive privilege stop him from testifying. I don’t think Bolton is taking this stance because he wants to say things that will please Trump. Natasha Bertrand, _Politico_, [on MSNBC yesterday](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17JX-hlod8Q&feature=youtu.be&t=701): “John Bolton, we’re told, is actually very eager to testify…” ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3559 "2019-10-31T15:03:11Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Perhaps I should have said liberals instead. OK, has he actually gone on record implying or saying that he hates liberals? Or just liberal policies? ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3560 "2019-10-31T15:11:01Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > IF, and it is a big if, the presentation convinced all but that 35% of the voting population base of the actual high crimes this is, then each district and state GOP critter would have an individualized assessment to make. Which way are they less screwed? But for some it’s clear: dump Trump and you’re a primary crump chump. Don’t and you get the nom to be a gen election bomb … > > Honestly some might just retire at that point. I’m starting to think the threat of a primary challenge for some of these GOP Senators might not be the deterrent that Orange Julius Caesar is fervently hoping for. His coattails now can’t be as big as they were during the midterms (and really, were they all that big?). The political machinery needed to transform the clubhouse errand boy into a viable primary challenger. even in a GOP stronghold, may simply not be there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=177) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=179)