# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 179
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3561 "2019-10-31T15:18:30Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > … At no point in his administration has his approval rating dropped below 37%. It only dropped that low during the government shutdown… And this has also been floated as another “strategy” Trump might use to add wrench to impeachment inquiry works. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3562 "2019-10-31T15:31:26Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > I’m starting to think the threat of a primary challenge for some of these GOP Senators might not be the deterrent that Orange Julius Caesar is fervently hoping for. His coattails now can’t be as big as they were during the midterms (and really, were they all that big?). The political machinery needed to transform the clubhouse errand boy into a viable primary challenger. even in a GOP stronghold, may simply not be there. Filing deadlines are passing every day as well. In Texas, the deadline is December 9th, and Cornyn already has 2 challengers: > **[United States Senate election in Texas, 2020](https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_election_in_Texas,_2020)** > > Incumbent \[\[John Cornyn\]\] (R) defeated \[\[M.J. Hegar\]\] (D), \[\[David B. Collins\]\] (G), \[\[Kerry McKennon\]\] (L), and \[\[Ricardo Turullols-Bonilla\]\] (I) in the November 3, 2020 general election for \[\[U.S. Senate elections, 2020|U.S. Senate\]\] in Texas.... ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3563 "2019-10-31T15:34:50Z")
This may matter: [State Department agrees to turn over Ukraine documents](https://news.yahoo.com/state-department-agrees-to-turn-over-ukraine-documents-potentially-providing-democrats-with-impeachment-fodder-134930553.html) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON — The State Department has agreed to release documents related to President Trump’s handling of aid to Ukraine, potentially providing ammunition to the impeachment probe now being conducted by Democrats in the House of Representatives. > > The decision comes in response to a lawsuit filed by American Oversight, a watchdog group affiliated with progressive causes. That lawsuit was initially filed in the spring, after Trump dismissed U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie L. Yovanovitch. Since that firing, a whistleblower complaint and other developments have led to allegations Trump used $400 million in aid to Ukraine as leverage on authorities there to investigate Hunter Biden. > > Hunter Biden’s father, former Vice President Joe Biden, is challenging Trump for the presidency. > > Last week, a U.S. District Court judge in Washington, D.C., told the State Department it had to turn over Ukraine-related documents, citing “public interest” that he said tilted “heavily in favor of disclosure.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3564 "2019-10-31T15:37:26Z")
Impeachment inquiry just passed in the House (I was watching C-Span). Votes were something like 232-193 (not sure if that’s the final numbers), with 2 Democrats voting nay and 1 independent (former Republican Justin Amash, I believe) voting aye and a handful of no votes. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3565 "2019-10-31T15:46:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I agree. It seems to me that Bolton doesn’t want to appear to be willing to do the Democrats’ bidding, but would be more than happy to stick it to Donald if compelled to do so. This almost certainly isn’t true but, one could note, all of the testimony that we’ve seen so far has said that various people went to Bolton, telling him that they were concerned about Trump’s Ukraine activities. From what we know of the whistleblower, he is a person whom a variety of people talked to, telling him that they had concerns about Trump’s Ukraine activities. Occam’s Razor would tell us that between supposing the existence of two figures who match that description, we should only expect there to be one. Bolton rage-quit and/or was fired. Shortly after, the whistleblower came into existence. And, of course, Bolton is the “scorched earth” sort. Counter to all of that, Trump’s just soooo criminal that we probably don’t need to bring Occam into this and I’m not sure that this is Bolton’s style. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3566 "2019-10-31T16:01:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > IF, and it is a big if, the presentation convinced all but that 35% of the voting population base of the actual high crimes this is, then each district and state GOP critter would have an individualized assessment to make. Which way are they less screwed? But for some it’s clear: dump Trump and you’re a primary crump chump. Don’t and you get the nom to be a gen election bomb … > > Honestly some might just retire at that point. There was a old Pubbie of Niger Who smiled as he rode on a tiger; They returned from the ride With the Pubbie inside, And the smile on the face of the tiger.I’m finding it hard to sympathetic. They’re in a hole of their own digging. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3567 "2019-10-31T16:07:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Impeachment inquiry just passed in the House (I was watching C-Span). Votes were something like 232-193 (not sure if that’s the final numbers), with 2 Democrats voting nay and 1 independent (former Republican Justin Amash, I believe) voting aye and a handful of no votes. Reps. Collin Peterson of Minnesota and Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey are the two Democrats who voted with Republicans against the resolution. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3568 "2019-10-31T16:09:21Z")
Yes, I came here to say that. Here’s an NPR story: " Just two Democrats voted no — Reps. Collin Peterson of Minnesota and Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey. Amid the debate, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., called it a “sad day.” “It’s a sad day because nobody comes to Congress to impeach a president of the United States. No one,” she told reporters. “We come here to do the work, make the future better for our children, for America’s future. We take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, and that’s what we cannot ignore and will not ignore when the president’s behavior indicates that that investigation, that inquiry, is necessary.” > **[House Passes Resolution Formalizing Impeachment Inquiry](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/31/774777869/house-to-vote-to-formalize-outline-impeachment-inquiry)** > > In a press conference ahead of the vote, Speaker Nancy Pelosi pushed back on Republican claims that the process is unfair to the president, saying the procedures are "very transparent and open." ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3569 "2019-10-31T16:15:53Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > This almost certainly isn’t true but, one could note, all of the testimony that we’ve seen so far has said that various people went to Bolton, telling him that they were concerned about Trump’s Ukraine activities. > > From what we know of the whistleblower, he is a person whom a variety of people talked to, telling him that they had concerns about Trump’s Ukraine activities. Occam’s Razor would tell us that between supposing the existence of two figures who match that description, we should only expect there to be one. > > Bolton rage-quit and/or was fired. Shortly after, the whistleblower came into existence. > > And, of course, Bolton is the “scorched earth” sort. > > Counter to all of that, Trump’s just soooo criminal that we probably don’t need to bring Occam into this and I’m not sure that this is Bolton’s style. I don’t know. My take on Bolton is that he’s a war hawk who fancies himself as the greatest patriot of all and that he is very much a hawk with respect to Russia. If he genuinely believes that the Ukraine blackmail has the effect of strengthening Russia’s hand then I can totally see him being outraged enough to testify and to build the case for impeachment and conviction. He doesn’t see himself as owing Donald anything, if anything he thinks that Donald is his debt for gracing the room with his presence. I’m sure it didn’t take long for Bolton to realize what a chump DJT is and that his presidency poses a clear and present danger to the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3570 "2019-10-31T16:20:52Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Yes, I came here to say that. Here’s an NPR story: > " Just two Democrats voted no — Reps. Collin Peterson of Minnesota and Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey. Congressman Peterson doesn’t accept emails from people outside his district, so I sent him an “Appearance Request” inviting him to speak to a group about why he is ashamed to have let down his country in this difficult time. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3571 "2019-10-31T16:27:55Z")
So the House Republicans want us to believe that trump wanted to root out corruption in the Ukraine. PLEASE! This president is corruption PERSONIFIED. His interest in Ukrainian corruption was limited to getting a PIECE of it. This explains why they wanted to get rid of the ambassador and replace her with a stooge. This explains Rudy and the “two Shrecks”. This explains why Bolton called the whole thing a “drug deal”. This explains everything. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3572 "2019-10-31T16:28:45Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Congressman Peterson doesn’t accept emails from people outside his district, so I sent him an “Appearance Request” inviting him to speak to a group about why he is ashamed to have let down his country in this difficult time. I hate it that congressmen generally don’t accept emails from outsiders. If they’re going to grandstand on the national stage the least they can do is take the flak from a national audience. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3573 "2019-10-31T16:29:02Z")
Peterson is basically a Republican… but he’s in a Trump +31 district, so I don’t really think there’s much point to being pissed off about him in terms of partisan politics. He’s probably better than the alternative for that district. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3574 "2019-10-31T16:33:26Z")
New trivia question! Who is the only Democrat to vote _for_ an impeachment inquiry into Bill Clinton (D) and _against_ an impeachment inquiry for Donald Trump ®? Collin Peterson, that’s who! How long before Mr. Peterson goes on Faux? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3575 "2019-10-31T16:36:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Peterson is basically a Republican… but he’s in a Trump +31 district, so I don’t really think there’s much point to being pissed off about him in terms of partisan politics. He’s probably better than the alternative for that district. It’s actually a good time to be a leader and explain to your district why this matters. I assume he voted no because he doesn’t want Trump impeached. That’s incomprehensible to me, but there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3576 "2019-10-31T16:44:40Z")
I wonder why \*former \*members of the Senate and House are able to see things more clearly? > [@](#): > > Former Republican U.S. Sen. Slade Gorton says President Donald Trump has taken “a dozen actions that warrant impeachment” by the U.S. House, though he has not concluded whether Trump ought to be removed from office ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3577 "2019-10-31T16:51:56Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Yes, I came here to say that. Here’s an NPR story: > " Just two Democrats voted no — Reps. Collin Peterson of Minnesota and Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey. > Amid the debate, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., called it a “sad day.” > “It’s a sad day because nobody comes to Congress to impeach a president of the United States. No one,” she told reporters. “We come here to do the work, make the future better for our children, for America’s future. We take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, and that’s what we cannot ignore and will not ignore when the president’s behavior indicates that that investigation, that inquiry, is necessary.” > [House Passes Resolution Formalizing Impeachment Inquiry : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/31/774777869/house-to-vote-to-formalize-outline-impeachment-inquiry) Wow! Pelosi actually sounds like a reasonable, mature, responsible adult. Trump’s certainly never gonna sound like one! ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3578 "2019-10-31T16:59:09Z")
Whew, that was a lot of pages to catch up. > [@MulderMuffin](#): > > Ken Starr: > > Yes, THAT Ken Starr. > > There’s a whole lot of “Do as I say, not as I do,” going around with Republicans who were responsible for the Clinton impeachment. He advocates censuring Trump at most, because impeachment is bad for our democracy. Unless you lie about a blowjob, I guess. > > -from The Washington Post > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/29/suddenly-ken-starr-doesnt-like-impeachment-so-much/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/29/suddenly-ken-starr-doesnt-like-impeachment-so-much/) I won’t get into it in too much detail here because I don’t want to hijack, but I think we need to stop defending Clinton. Were the Republicans utter hypocrites then and now? Absolutely. But with the benefit of hindsight, I’m not sure Clinton shouldn’t have been impeached, albeit on slightly altered articles. Perjury and witness tampering, and sexual favors he obtained literally in the oval office, from a young intern, while he was president. If that happened now, by a president of either party, I would likely support impeachment. We need to stop minimizing it as “lying about a blow job.” But by all means, we should hold Republicans’ feet to the fire about how that impeachment was conducted, and why these charges would deserve any different treatment. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > [Trump Wants You to Know He’s Smart and Capable Enough to ‘Do Quid Pro Quo’](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-wants-you-to-know-hes-smart-enough-to-do-quid-pro-quo?ref=home) > > Does it make a difference if dt doesn’t want your presumption? In actuality, what the near-transcript shows is that he is too dumb/incompetent to NOT do quid pro quo. I think he believes it isn’t quid pro quo if the quid and the quo are not in the same sentence. Also, after Vindman confirmed that the ellipses do indicate omissions, I strongly suspect there’s a quid pro quo sentence that got removed. (Which would be why he was so confident the record of the call had “no quid pro quo.”) I wonder if anyone tried to explain to him that that isn’t how it works. I also mentioned several pages back that there should be a campaign of taunting to get him to testify. It certainly could work to just get him to publicly incriminate himself, too. People should be saying that he’s not smart enough to tell us his plan. It probably wasn’t even his plan, and he probably didn’t even understand it, etc. Although, come to think of it, he publicly incriminates himself all the time, no taunting needed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3579 "2019-10-31T17:17:33Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Trump’s approval rating shows almost no sensitivity to headlines. At no point in his administration has his approval rating dropped below 37%. It only dropped that low during the government shutdown.Trump’s base seemingly comprises overwhelmingly low information voters. My guess is that weeks of hearings might push his approval rating down to 34%. I figure he has no chance of conviction in the Senate unless more than half of Republican voters disapprove of him. That means roughly 25% approval ratings overall, in a world where basically every Democrat already disapproves and the number of high-information Republicans simply dwindles out of sheer embarrassment. “Support for the President” and “support for impeachment” aren’t the same thing. There are a lot of people out there who don’t like Trump, but aren’t sure that impeaching him is necessary or appropriate. Those people could be swung around to supporting impeachment without Trump’s core support dipping much below ~37%. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3580 "2019-10-31T17:26:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Support for the President” and “support for impeachment” aren’t the same thing. There are a lot of people out there who don’t like Trump, but aren’t sure that impeaching him is necessary or appropriate. Who are these people and how can they follow the testimony and not feel that he crossed a line? Where on earth is the line for those people? Do they even have a line? Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=178) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=180)