# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 187
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3721 "2019-11-02T19:28:24Z")
I haven’t yet seen any mention of this: [White House Withholding 105 Million in Security Aid for Lebanon](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lebanon-defense-exclusive/exclusive-us-withholding-105-million-in-security-aid-for-lebanon-sources-idUSKBN1XA2QX) (Reuters) > [@](#): > > U.S. President Donald Trump’s administration is withholding $105 million in security aid for Lebanon, two U.S. officials said on Thursday, two days after the resignation of Lebanese Prime Minister Saad al-Hariri. > > The State Department told Congress on Thursday that the White House budget office and National Security Council had decided to withhold the foreign military assistance, the two officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity. > > The officials did not say why the aid was blocked. One of the sources said the State Department did not give Congress a reason for the decision. I wonder what the quid pro quo was for this move. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3722 "2019-11-02T20:01:32Z")
Not quite a quote from the Mueller Report but it won’t let me copy and paste, so from the below article: > [@](#): > > As reporters questioned whether he directed Flynn’s Russia contacts, Trump told Priebus to have McFarland draft an internal email saying that the president didn’t order Flynn to discuss sanctions with Kislyak. > > Priebus went to McFarland, who balked. How could she write such an email? She didn’t know if it was true, she told him. She went to Eisenberg, who told her it was a bad idea. “It would also be a bad idea for the President because it looked as if my ambassadorial appointment was in some way a quid pro quo,” she wrote in a contemporaneous memo. [http://m.startribune.com/the-mueller-report-s-account-of-michael-flynn-s-lies/509214352/](http://m.startribune.com/the-mueller-report-s-account-of-michael-flynn-s-lies/509214352/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3723 "2019-11-02T21:45:40Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Moscow Mitch has already affirmatively stated in public that if the House votes articles of impeachment, then he expects a trial to last for at least 6 to 8 weeks. He will run it 6 days a week, Mondays through Saturdays. So the scenario you envision doesn’t look like it will come to pass. You believe him? Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3724 "2019-11-02T22:02:54Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I haven’t yet seen any mention of this: [White House Withholding 105 Million in Security Aid for Lebanon](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lebanon-defense-exclusive/exclusive-us-withholding-105-million-in-security-aid-for-lebanon-sources-idUSKBN1XA2QX) > > > [@](#): > > > > U.S. President Donald Trump’s administration is withholding $105 million in security aid for Lebanon, two U.S. officials said on Thursday, two days after the resignation of Lebanese Prime Minister Saad al-Hariri. > > > > The State Department told Congress on Thursday that the White House budget office and National Security Council had decided to withhold the foreign military assistance, the two officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity. > > > > The officials did not say why the aid was blocked. One of the sources said the State Department did not give Congress a reason for the decision. > > I wonder what the quid pro quo was for this move. _”I want DVDs of some Lebanese. Some of that girl-on-girl action to get my motor runnng.”_ ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3725 "2019-11-02T23:40:48Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I haven’t yet seen any mention of this: [White House Withholding 105 Million in Security Aid for Lebanon](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lebanon-defense-exclusive/exclusive-us-withholding-105-million-in-security-aid-for-lebanon-sources-idUSKBN1XA2QX) (Reuters) > > I wonder what the quid pro quo was for this move. To me, it looks like they can then say “See, we withhold aid all the time, not just for Ukraine.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3726 "2019-11-03T00:15:31Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > You believe him? > > Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk \ I don’t know. But Moscow Mitch chooses his words and actions very carefully. I loathe him, but I recognize his cunning. He hasn’t survived for 6 terms by not knowing exactly how far he can go – and how far he can’t. I’ve watched him throughout this mess. He’s warned Trump in subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle ways a number of times that it was possible for him (Trump) to go too far, and that removal is not out of the question. McConnell has deviated from defending Trump on several occasions lately. He has put some noticeable distance between them, even at times when I would have expected him to simply stay quiet – which is his usual tactic when he doesn’t want to signal a course. For him to take the step of making a very public statement about the length of the Senate trial and name the days of the week it will be in session could accomplish several things for him: First, he really hates the Moscow Mitch moniker. He wants to nip that in the bud by appearing to be less Trump-aligned (too late on this one, I think). Second, he’s not a Trump fan. He’s a Moscow Mitch fan. I don’t think he’d be sorry to see the back of Trump, so if Dems are successful in swaying public opinion sufficiently to merit a removal vote, I think he’ll take advantage of it. Third, he’s signaling to his members that it might be ok to consider removal if the evidence merits it and public opinion goes in that direction. Notice how they’ve all started mumbling to the press about how they will soon be “jurors” in the removal trial and can therefore offer no comments on Trump’s alleged high crimes and misdemeanors. _None_ of them are saying what he did is ok, like some Republican House members are. Fourth, I don’t think he wants to support an uncontrollable Trump for 4 more years. As much as Trump has hurt the country, he has hurt the Republican brand more and will continue to do so. There’s really only one way to fix that, and that’s to jettison Trump. I think the reason McConnell leaned back and welcomed Russian interference in 2016 was because he believed he could control Trump while he, McConnell, realized his lifelong dream of stacking the courts. Now he knows he can’t. Fifth, even McConnell recognizes that if Trump contests the 2020 election as most are certain he will, it will rend this country apart. Trump can’t argue with a 20-member removal vote by the Senate the way he can call the 2020 election results into question. That doesn’t mean I take Moscow Mitch at his word. But in a several ways, he seems to have charted a course – and I don’t think it necessarily bodes well for Trump. If I’m right, I don’t expect McConnell to advertise his intent much. In fact, I’d expect him to misdirect Trump as much as possible into believing the Senate has his back – right up to the point where they take the removal vote. I mean, would _you_ give Trump any advance warning? Or it’s absolutely possible this is merely wishful thinking on my part and we’re going to get reamed again. We’ll know soon. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3727 "2019-11-03T00:27:00Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > To me, it looks like they can then say “See, we withhold aid all the time, not just for Ukraine.” I would agree with you wholeheartedly except for two things. One, Moscow Mitch made a point of publicly commenting that he had several times inquired about the Ukraine aid and why it had not been released as Congress had authorized. He said he never received a satisfactory answer. It’s one of the times when McConnell signaled his displeasure with what Trump did. The Syria thing really pissed him off. Two, if Congressional Republicans endorse the notion that the Executive Branch can withhold or repurpose funds at will, then they will have ceded one of the main reasons for their existence: Their ability to control taxpayer money and where it is spent. The White House is trying to advance this narrative, but not Congress. I don’t think I’ve even heard a whackadoodle House Republican say it. Why have a Congress at all if the Executive Branch can simply pick and choose how all our money is allocated? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3728 "2019-11-03T00:28:44Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > To me, it looks like they can then say “See, we withhold aid all the time, not just for Ukraine.” I think that’s right. It’s also possible, though, that some kind of arm-twisting intended to help Donald J. Trump is part of the picture. Something along the lines of ‘_you have an important trade relationship with Egypt. Joe Biden was in Egypt in June 2010. We need you to pressure Egypt to announce publicly that their law-enforcement services are launching an investigation into Biden’s alleged involvement with a child-sex ring during his visit_.’ Just as with the ‘_pressure Ukraine to say they’re investigating Biden_,’ it matters not at all that there’s nothing to the story, because all the major media will run headlines and top-of-the-hour stories for days about the Official Investigation into Alleged Biden Wrongdoing. In re a topic from a while back that got dropped in the rush of news: > [@enipla](#): > > I thought the copy to the phone conversation was what was put on the SSS (Super Secret Server).😕 I think the discussion there concerned the copy the Ukrainian President would presumably have made of the conversation with Trump. I do wonder, though, about the post-1973 policy (apparently) of not recording a US President’s calls. Did every single President since then–Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama–take a look at the issue and say ‘hmm, let’s not record in case I say something that could later be used against me’…??? I mean, I could see _some_ of them viewing it that way–but _all_ of them? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3729 "2019-11-03T00:59:19Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > …Fourth, I don’t think he wants to support an uncontrollable Trump for 4 more years. As much as Trump has hurt the country, he has hurt the Republican brand more and will continue to do so. There’s really only one way to fix that, and that’s to jettison Trump. I think the reason McConnell leaned back and welcomed Russian interference in 2016 was because he believed he could control Trump while he, McConnell, realized his lifelong dream of stacking the courts. Now he knows he can’t. > … I think **this** is the biggest one. Four more years of trying to manage the Toddler in Chief? Wiping his… er…\*nose \*and changing his diapers?? Mitch doesn’t want that any more than the rest of us. If he can just get _one more_ Republican on the Supreme Court in the next few months… > [@Aspenglow](#): > > …Why have a Congress at all if the Executive Branch can simply pick and choose how all our money is allocated? If Mitch could figure out how to do this, he’d jump at the chance. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3730 "2019-11-03T01:18:45Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I would agree with you wholeheartedly except for two things. > > One, Moscow Mitch made a point of publicly commenting that he had several times inquired about the Ukraine aid and why it had not been released as Congress had authorized. He said he never received a satisfactory answer. It’s one of the times when McConnell signaled his displeasure with what Trump did. The Syria thing really pissed him off. > > Two, if Congressional Republicans endorse the notion that the Executive Branch can withhold or repurpose funds at will, then they will have ceded one of the main reasons for their existence: Their ability to control taxpayer money and where it is spent. The White House is trying to advance this narrative, but not Congress. I don’t think I’ve even heard a whackadoodle House Republican say it. > > Why have a Congress at all if the Executive Branch can simply pick and choose how all our money is allocated? You’re thinking epistemically and rationally; the Republicans are thinking strictly in terms of power. From their vantage point, they don’t need consistency; they need power. They are a minority with majority power. Their objective is to corrupt the mechanisms of democratic influence to the point where doubts are cast on the degree to which we live in a democratic state. Why have a Congress at all? Why have a judiciary? To rubber stamp the legitimacy of the Executive Branch. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3731 "2019-11-03T01:27:11Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I think **this** is the biggest one. Four more years of trying to manage the Toddler in Chief? Wiping his… er…\*nose \*and changing his diapers?? Mitch doesn’t want that any more than the rest of us. If he can just get _one more_ Republican on the Supreme Court in the next few months… > If Mitch could figure out how to do this, he’d jump at the chance. No, McConnell has the chance to completely remake the judiciary in his image; he won’t stop there - not a chance. He has the chance to add another conservative to the Supreme Court. He also has the chance to put more conservative ideologues on the appellate courts, and who knows, in another 4 years, the majority of the entire federal judiciary will have a certain…19th Century look and feel to it. Why would Cocaine Mitch take chances knowing that Millennials might vote for a more progressive president who wants all sorts of economic reforms to protect the middle class? He wants to use the courts to declare anything that progressives come up with as unconstitutional. This is what most people, including those reading here, don’t seem to understand. As I’ve said before, authoritarianism and oligarchy are much, much further down the football field than we realize. Right now, it’s the legitimacy of the courts that is giving us some degree of fading hopes that we can rein the Executive in. The courts have been checking Trump, putting some limits on his executive orders, and where appropriate, compelling oversight - or ruling to that effect. But the country cannot withstand another 4 years of Trump/McConnell judicial picks, particularly given the fact that an increasing number have very little actual background in law and are not even regarded as qualified in the eyes of the ABA. Another 4 years from now, Trump’s judiciary could resemble that of some authoritarian countries. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3732 "2019-11-03T02:35:44Z")
So, I convinced a Trumpster that he needs impeachment (for now, who knows if it’ll last), so I got that going for me. How? His question: “What do you think of all this impeachment shit?”, so obviously not a supporter. My response was: "The United States is a sovereign nation. All sovereign nations… Democratic, Socialist, Communist, Theocratic… regardless of government, need to retain control of the internal processes which select the people who are to maintain and lead that nation’s policy making apparatus. "Any leader, on any level, inviting foreign interference in this decision making process is automatically unfit to govern. Period. And if we think that the United States is a sovereign nation worth maintaining, then a President, of _any_ party, which violates that sovereignty demands impeachment from all Americans. “In addition, the Constitution, under Article 2, Section 4, lays out Bribery as a named crime for impeachment. By withholding taxpayer monies to do the above, Trump committed bribery with our money so he can violate our sovereignty, which, as a citizen, adds insult to injury. In short…”, (I concluded), “there is no way this man can escape impeachment and have the United States remain a viable entity.” He said “I never thought about that, but you’re absolutely right. Wow. Yeah…” * * * Anyway, thought I would share. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3733 "2019-11-03T03:12:28Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > So, I convinced a Trumpster that he needs impeachment (for now, who knows if it’ll last), so I got that going for me. > > \ > > Anyway, thought I would share. Well done, you. 🙂 Warms my heart to hear of it! I like how you distilled it down to the fundamentals. Should I get the chance, I’ll use your approach. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3734 "2019-11-03T03:15:39Z")
I voted today. Felt good. I will vote again. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3735 "2019-11-03T03:24:31Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I voted today. Felt good. > > I will vote again. Vote early and often. - Al Capone ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3736 "2019-11-03T03:28:01Z")
Thanks! It’s effectively the same argument I’ve used in this thread. New line for my conclusion: “Donald Trump used our tax dollars to bribe the Ukranians to help steal our vote.” Gonna work that one in, next time. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3737 "2019-11-03T03:42:27Z")
First release of documents from the Mueller investigation, btw: > **[Mueller 302s | PDF | Government Agencies | Information Sensitivity](https://www.scribd.com/document/433141568/Mueller-302s#from_embed)** > > Hundreds of pages of newly-released and heavily redacted FBI interview notes from Mueller investigation I skipped down a ways and began reading, so I’m sure that there’s more of interest before this but this seems like criminal witness tampering on the part of Jared Kushner on page 73: > [@](#): > > It was not COHEN’s idea to write a letter to congress about TRUMP TOWER MOSCOW. The statement was put out to piggyback off of JARED KUSHNER putting out a statement before. The release was to shape the narrative and to let other people **who might be witnesses** know what COHEN was saying to keep the same message. Emphasis added. In general, though, they seem to have redacted everything that wasn’t in the Mueller Report itself. One suspects that there will be further legal wrangling on this. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3738 "2019-11-03T04:38:59Z")
Or more direct relevance to the impeachment issue, there is some discussion between Bannon and Prince about an “Oleg, national security advisor to the Ukraine” that Trump should meet, and whom the FBI seem to be interested in. This guy, maybe? > ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3739 "2019-11-03T04:47:57Z")
Nope, it’s this Oleg: [https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/q-a-will-scandal-sink-poroshenko-s-second-term-chances/](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/q-a-will-scandal-sink-poroshenko-s-second-term-chances/) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3740 "2019-11-03T05:50:27Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Thanks! It’s effectively the same argument I’ve used in this thread. > > New line for my conclusion: “Donald Trump used our tax dollars to bribe the Ukranians to help steal our vote.” Gonna work that one in, next time. Might be more powerful if you changed “our” to “YOUR”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=186) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=188)