# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 191
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3801 "2019-11-05T16:41:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > All non-white immigration that is. He is on record as saying we need more from places like Norway. How could I forget that? :smack: I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3802 "2019-11-05T17:05:51Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > But how do you square “always” with the fact that you used the words “if” and “might” above? Now, I’m not saying this isn’t possible, but I think it’s a bit hasty to say it as of now. You’re aware that Lev Parnas paid Giuliani $500,000 for a consulting fee through his company, Fraud Guarantee? That Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman both claimed to be working _for_ Giuliani, despite _them_ paying _him_? That Lev and Igor funneled other anonymous people’s money, sources unproved at this time but suspected to be Russian, through shell companies to fund various Republican campaigns, including a $300,000 donation to Trump’s super PAC, America First, and also a large donation to Texas Republican House member, Pete Sessions, who then sent a letter to Mike Pompeo stating that Marie Yovanovich should be removed as Ambassador to Ukraine – which she subsequently was? You know Yovanovich, right? The woman who had worked for years to help Ukraine smother corruption in their newly democratic country? That Parnas helped set up meetings between Giuliani and Ukrainians promising dirt on Democrats? I use words like “if” and “might” because allegations have not yet been proven. But yeah, we should probably reserve judgment about whether Putin was behind it all. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3803 "2019-11-05T17:08:30Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Listen to today’s episode of The Daily. Largest nyt poll to date has Warren losing all six battlegrounds. Biden wins a majority. It’s not pretty. This is why the Democratic Party drives me insane. They live in just as impervious of a bubble Trump supporters. Sanders, Warren, and the other progressives cannot win the battleground states needed to prevent the election going to Trump via Electoral College. They may get a majority of votes nationally but not where it’ll matter in deciding the election. When Trump is re-elected the progressives will have only themselves to blame - not that they’ll accept any responsibility, they’re too sanctimonious for that. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3804 "2019-11-05T17:12:08Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > … his company, Fraud Guarantee… Holy crap, how appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3805 "2019-11-05T17:14:37Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > … Sanders, Warren, and the other progressives cannot win the battleground states needed to prevent the election going to Trump via Electoral College. … But they can. Not in all of the states, but Trump didn’t win Wisconsin in a landslide. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_McQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@Steve\_McQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_McQwark)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3806 "2019-11-05T17:57:10Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > This is why the Democratic Party drives me insane. They live in just as impervious of a bubble Trump supporters. Sanders, Warren, and the other progressives cannot win the battleground states needed to prevent the election going to Trump via Electoral College. They may get a majority of votes nationally but not where it’ll matter in deciding the election. When Trump is re-elected the progressives will have only themselves to blame - not that they’ll accept any responsibility, they’re too sanctimonious for that. It has nothing to do with the Democratic voters. If the Republicans were running Kasich or Bush or Rubio or any other “wrong within normal parameters” candidate, then yeah, the positions of the Democratic nominee would matter. But anyone who would look at Elizabeth Warren versus Trump and say, “Sorry, I can’t bring myself to vote for someone as extreme as her.” was never going to vote for a Democrat no matter what. The 2020 presidential election is not about the policies of either party; it’s about who we are as a people. Are we a nation of laws and decorum and respect for others, or are we a nation of bullying and othering and “if you aren’t cheating, you aren’t trying” gamesmanship? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3807 "2019-11-05T18:30:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m not convinced yet. I follow the [RCP conglomerate poll](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html) - it has remained fairly consistent. If this poll of polls goes above 56% disapproval, I will start to take notice. Nor am I. I’m not sure how you are defining consistent, but note that my post is concerned with what has happened since Pelosi announced the formal inquiry. The RCP poll show a similar approval decline, and the current rate it won’t be long before he’s at 56% disapproval. But of course, these are just polls. I merely note that as of now, impeachment has not been a boon to Trump as lots of people, including Pelosi, seemed to think would be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3808 "2019-11-05T18:37:51Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You’re aware that Lev Parnas paid Giuliani $500,000 for a consulting fee through his company, Fraud Guarantee? > > That Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman both claimed to be working _for_ Giuliani, despite _them_ paying _him_? > > That Lev and Igor funneled other anonymous people’s money, sources unproved at this time but suspected to be Russian, through shell companies to fund various Republican campaigns, including a $300,000 donation to Trump’s super PAC, America First, and also a large donation to Texas Republican House member, Pete Sessions, who then sent a letter to Mike Pompeo stating that Marie Yovanovich should be removed as Ambassador to Ukraine – which she subsequently was? You know Yovanovich, right? The woman who had worked for years to help Ukraine smother corruption in their newly democratic country? > > That Parnas helped set up meetings between Giuliani and Ukrainians promising dirt on Democrats? > > I use words like “if” and “might” because allegations have not yet been proven. But yeah, we should probably reserve judgment about whether Putin was behind it all. I am aware of the general details, but am not as up on them as you are. But I don’t see any connection to Putin above. I see mention of Ukraine, but only a suspected tie to Russia is mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3809 "2019-11-05T18:44:58Z")
Don’t you already [have a thread dedicated to this topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=883284)? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3810 "2019-11-05T18:59:30Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Holy crap, how appropriate. Igor Fruman’s beach bar in Odessa is called Mafia Rave. > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I am aware of the general details, but am not as up on them as you are. But I don’t see any connection to Putin above. I see mention of Ukraine, but only a suspected tie to Russia is mentioned. Both Lev and Igor are Russian-mob connected. Not sure how much more clear the math can be on this. > [@JohnT](#): > > Don’t you already [have a thread dedicated to this topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=883284)? Since Lev Parnas has agreed to cooperate with the impeachment inquiry, I’d say our discussion is germane to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3811 "2019-11-05T19:07:33Z")
An Op-Ed written by Adam Schiff. (Should he be writing Op-Eds?) " A little over one month has passed since the White House released the record of President Donald Trump’s July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Americans read for themselves how President Zelensky sought more weapons critical to Ukraine’s defense, and how President Trump responded: “[I would like you to do us a favor though](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/25/trump-releases-transcript-call-ukraine-president/2438300001/)” and laid bare his abuse of the power of the presidency. From the call record alone, we have stark evidence that President Trump sought Ukraine’s help in the 2020 election by pressing that country to investigate a political opponent. Ukraine, which lies on the front line of Russian aggression, is financially, militarily and diplomatically dependent on the United States. The president’s corrupt pressure to secure its interference in our election betrayed our national security and his oath of office. …" > **[Schiff: Trump betrayed America. Soon the public will hear from patriots who...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/11/05/impeachment-trump-redirected-foreign-policy-personal-benefit-column/4159426002/)** > > The Ukraine call was one piece of a larger operation to redirect US foreign policy to benefit Trump’s personal interests, not the national interest. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3812 "2019-11-05T19:12:23Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Both Lev and Igor are Russian-mob connected. [So is Putin.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/trumps-businesses-are-full-of-dirty-russian-money-the-scandal-is-thats-legal/2019/03/29/11b812da-5171-11e9-88a1-ed346f0ec94f_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3813 "2019-11-05T19:18:38Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Igor Fruman’s beach bar in Odessa is called Mafia Rave. And they’re now being represented by Johnny Hitman from the firm of Goonsquad, Fuckyou and Balls. I’m telling you, in season 3, this shit just writes itself. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3814 "2019-11-05T19:36:01Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > And they’re now being represented by Johnny Hitman from the firm of Goonsquad, Fuckyou and Balls. > > I’m telling you, in season 3, this shit just writes itself. Every single one of these dumdums probably uses passwords like: Godfather Goodfellas Casino MyBlueHeaven Sopranos It’s a goddamn Christmas miracle that Wikileaks hasn’t cracked Rudy’s iPhone yet. And if they do, it’ll probably just be full of pictures of [himself.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2gly0HUKas) ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3815 "2019-11-05T19:55:28Z")
Amb. Sondland’s testimony is out … annnnnnndddd there’s the explicit extortion. Right there. I trust everyone sees it this time? > > “I said that resumption of the U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anticorruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks.” This was delivered on Sept 1. NYT ([https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1191786531205320706](https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1191786531205320706)): “Breaking News: The U.S. ambassador Gordon Sondland, a key witness in the impeachment inquiry, acknowledged delivering a quid pro quo message to Ukraine in a major revision to his impeachment testimony” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3816 "2019-11-05T20:10:33Z")
I can’t wait for the next TrumpTweet: “You see? It was extortion, not quid pro quo-Exoneration!!” ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3817 "2019-11-05T20:36:48Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Both Lev and Igor are Russian-mob connected. Not sure how much more clear the math can be on this. > … > Since Lev Parnas has agreed to cooperate with the impeachment inquiry, I’d say our discussion is germane to this thread. FYI, I started that thread John linked to, so he was asking me that. As I’ve said before, but perhaps in not exactly these words, it very well may be true that Putin is behind this in some way. But if I were sitting on a jury, I wouldn’t be able to vote to convict as of yet based on what I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3818 "2019-11-05T20:41:28Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > An Op-Ed written by Adam Schiff. (Should he be writing Op-Eds?) If he is ever gonna pull another “parody” of a transcript as he did at the hearing a while back, easily the dumbest political move by a Democrat in the last year, hell no. Otherwise, I don’t see why not. He should use any and all media at his disposal to get the word out. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3819 "2019-11-05T20:52:56Z")
He was paraphrasing a summary. We have not seen a transcript. Be careful you don’t choke on that propaganda you are swallowing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3820 "2019-11-05T20:53:41Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > If he is ever gonna pull another “parody” of a transcript as he did at the hearing a while back, easily the dumbest political move by a Democrat in the last year, hell no. Otherwise, I don’t see why not. He should use any and all media at his disposal to get the word out. I still can’t believe anyone gives a shit about that parody. Seriously? This isn’t even a nothingburger, this is the beyond meat nothingburger knockoff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=190) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=192)