# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 192
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3821 "2019-11-05T20:58:16Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Two, regarding your “ah well” above – can we just say for the record that it’d be a _good thing_ if this story is untrue? Because it means at least one depth of depravity to which our executive branch hasn’t sunk? I know we all want Trump gone but I’d prefer if everything bad he’s done has already come out, I don’t want more bad things happening in the world just to get meat for an impeachment trial. I’m not sure that I agree. Sure it would be better to live in a world where Khashoggi wasn’t killed, where we didn’t abandon our Kurdish allies, or where the president of the United States would see taking the actions described as morally unacceptable. But we don’t live in such a world. The first two are factually true and whether or not Trump was actually involved in such a conspiracy, based on what I have seen of Trump, his reported actions match how I would expect him to behave under those circumstances. So all of the negative aspects of a world in which such an event actually occurred are already baked into our reality. The only change is that if there were inconvertible evidence of these charges, it would represent a charge so dire that even the Republicans could not ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3822 "2019-11-05T20:59:39Z")
It should be noted that he says “anti-corruption statement” not “anti-Biden statement”. It is almost certainly true that the White House does and has - even in the time of Barack Obama - been choosy on scheduling when to perform the actions that they were obligated to by Congress as a sort of tug of the leash on any country that was misbehaving. Y’all need to rein in your reality distortion fields on this one. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3823 "2019-11-05T21:02:31Z")
Almost certainly true. Please, tell me more. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3824 "2019-11-05T21:10:24Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > But if I were sitting on a jury, I wouldn’t be able to vote to convict as of yet based on what I’ve seen. Keep in mind that impeachment isn’t a criminal trial. No-one is going to prison as a direct outcome of impeachment. Impeachment is a decision on whether or not an individual is someone that we continue wanting to give \*sole nuclear strike launch authority \*to. I think the standard of proof on whether or not a crime has been committed should be lower for the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3825 "2019-11-05T21:11:42Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Almost certainly true. Please, tell me more. > **[F.A.Q. on U.S. Aid to Egypt: Where Does the Money Go, And How Is It Spent?](https://www.propublica.org/article/f.a.q.-on-u.s.-aid-to-egypt-where-does-the-money-go-who-decides-how-spent)** > > With the Obama administration cutting off some U.S. aid to Egypt as the violence there continues, we've taken a step back to look at how much the U.S. gives Egypt and what those billions have bought. The more relevant part of my post was the “anti-corruption” part. Do you oppose anti-corruption measures? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3826 "2019-11-05T21:16:43Z")
I see upon a glance at your link that it isn’t at all what Trump did with Ukraine. But the “look over here” about cutting aid was insightful. I suppose Obama also put his shoes on, just like Trump did. Same old thing, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3827 "2019-11-05T21:25:02Z")
> [@Celidin](#): > > Amb. Sondland’s testimony is out … annnnnnndddd there’s the explicit extortion. Right there. I trust everyone sees it this time? > > [https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1191790762310144000/photo/1](https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1191790762310144000/photo/1) > [https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1191790762310144000](https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1191790762310144000) > > “I said that resumption of the U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anticorruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks.” > > This was delivered on Sept 1. > > NYT ([https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1191786531205320706](https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1191786531205320706)): > “Breaking News: The U.S. ambassador Gordon Sondland, a key witness in the impeachment inquiry, acknowledged delivering a quid pro quo message to Ukraine in a major revision to his impeachment testimony” Well goodness. I guess the Trumpist chant will have to focus on: " It’s not a crime if the president does it" I mean, that worked before, right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3828 "2019-11-05T21:34:28Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well goodness. > > I guess the Trumpist chant will have to focus on: > > " It’s not a crime if the president does it" > > I mean, that worked before, right? Didn’t it get a Frosty reception the first time around? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3829 "2019-11-05T21:36:49Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I see upon a glance at your link that it isn’t at all what Trump did with Ukraine. But the “look over here” about cutting aid was insightful. I suppose Obama also put his shoes on, just like Trump did. Same old thing, you know? No kidding. Obama: We’re withholding aid because you’re ruthlessly suppressing protesters. Trump: We’re withholding aid because I want you to investigate my potential rival in next year’s election. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3830 "2019-11-05T21:57:56Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It should be noted that he says “anti-corruption statement” not “anti-Biden statement”. “He?” He who? Sondland? Actually, what Sondland says is > [@Amb. Sondland](#): > > I said that resumption of the U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anticorruption statement **that we had been discussing for many weeks.**" Emphasis mine. Pretty sure I heard that those “discussions” actually _did_ mention one or both of the Bidens. I could be mistaken, of course. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3831 "2019-11-05T22:02:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It should be noted that he says “anti-corruption statement” not “anti-Biden statement”. > > It is almost certainly true that the White House does and has - even in the time of Barack Obama - been choosy on scheduling when to perform the actions that they were obligated to by Congress as a sort of tug of the leash on any country that was misbehaving. > > Y’all need to rein in your reality distortion fields on this one. Does this quote from Sondland help? > [@](#): > > “Corruption was mentioned. Then, as time went on— and, again, I can’t nail down the dates — then let’s get the Ukrainians to give a statement about corruption. And then, no, corruption isn’t enough, we need to talk about the 2016 election and the Burisma investigations.” [https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/05/politics/gordon-sondland-kurt-volker-transcripts-impeachment-inquiry/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/05/politics/gordon-sondland-kurt-volker-transcripts-impeachment-inquiry/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3832 "2019-11-05T22:09:18Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Trump: We’re withholding aid because I want you to investigate my potential rival in next year’s election. But that’s not quite right is it? They are much more concerned that Ukraine announce the existence of investigations than the investigations themselves. They really don’t care about corruption any more than being able to say that Joe Biden is being investigated for corruption. As a general rule this group is A-OK with corruption. Maybe edit your quote to… Trump: We’re withholding aid because I want you to say you’re investigating my potential rival in next year’s election. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3833 "2019-11-05T22:10:05Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > He was paraphrasing a summary. We have not seen a transcript. > > Be careful you don’t choke on that propaganda you are swallowing. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I still can’t believe anyone gives a shit about that parody. Seriously? This isn’t even a nothingburger, this is the beyond meat nothingburger knockoff. I’m not swallowing anything. How do you get that?? And I don’t give a shit about it. It was just an aside. I simply meant not just quoting directly, but literally making up stuff, played right into the hands of the fake news crowd. It was a stupid thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3834 "2019-11-05T22:10:20Z")
Oh, and it’s quite interested that this was send by Sondland on Monday as AN ADDITION TO HIS PREVIOUS TESTIMONY, where he said " he had remembered a September 1 conversation in which he told a top aide to Zelensky that the security aid and investigations were linked." > [@](#): > > I now recall speaking individually with Mr. (Andriy) Yermak, where I said resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks," Sondland said. Yes, that’s the money quote. But to repeat - this was NOT in his original testimony. He just “remembered it” afterward. Hopefully, this is going to happen more and more, as we dig deeper and deeper into this festering pile. More folks “remembering” stuff, and more people deciding that telling the truth is probably the only way to avoid jail. (last one to flip gets to spend quality time in prison!) ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3835 "2019-11-05T22:11:35Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > Keep in mind that impeachment isn’t a criminal trial. No-one is going to prison as a direct outcome of impeachment. > > Impeachment is a decision on whether or not an individual is someone that we continue wanting to give \*sole nuclear strike launch authority \*to. > > I think the standard of proof on whether or not a crime has been committed should be lower for the latter. Agreed. I was merely responding in the context of what Putin may or may not have to do with the Russian mob. Nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3836 "2019-11-05T22:58:56Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > But that’s not quite right is it? They are much more concerned that Ukraine announce the existence of investigations than the investigations themselves. They really don’t care about corruption any more than being able to say that Joe Biden is being investigated for corruption. As a general rule this group is A-OK with corruption. > > Maybe edit your quote to… > > Trump: We’re withholding aid because I want you to say you’re investigating my potential rival in next year’s election. Yep. Thanks for fixing it for me! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3837 "2019-11-05T23:03:35Z")
[QUOTE=Fiddle Peghead;21956973I simply meant not just quoting directly, but literally making up stuff, played right into the hands of the fake news crowd. It was a stupid thing to do.[/QUOTE] If you call “paraphrasing” “literally making stuff up,” I’m afraid it’s you, not Schiff, playing into the hands of the fake news crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3838 "2019-11-05T23:25:03Z")
Lindsey Graham [a few weeks ago](https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1182011592139038722): > [@](#): > > If House D’s refuse to release full transcript of Volker testimony as requested by Congressman Jordan, it will be an abuse of power. > … > If this continues, I will call Volker before the Senate Judiciary Committee to testify publicly to ensure the full story is told. Lindsey Graham [today](https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1191824848978358274): > [@](#): > > Reporter: “Do you plan on reading these transcripts that were released?” > > Graham: “No… I’ve written the whole process off … I think this is a bunch of B.S.” ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3839 "2019-11-05T23:33:48Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Lindsey Graham [a few weeks ago](https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1182011592139038722): > Lindsey Graham [today](https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1191824848978358274): As a simple Canadian this BLOWS MY MIND! How can these people sleep at night or look in the mirror? I’m really curious how these people will be represented by historians in 20-30 years? MtM ---
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3840 "2019-11-05T23:46:45Z")
The right’s just going to spin this as Trump was trying to fight corruption. Never mind that “fighting corruption” wasn’t something he cared about before he happened to have a country with a connection to his political rival. Never mind that “fighting corruption” isn’t something he’s stressed with any other countries. Never mind that we have the entire frickin’ State Department for this kind of thing. Oh no, Trump was being honorable, and trying to force a country to be just as honorable. You know that’s how they’re spinning it. Because the right hates America and everything it stands for just as much as they’ve accused the rest of us for all these years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=191) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=193)