# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 197
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3921 "2019-11-07T13:46:18Z")
I wonder if the Democrats ought to very conspicuously praise Bill Barr for his decision to not give into Trump’s desire for rhetorical exculpation. Very, very conspicuously. On twitter, and in public, and elsewhere. Over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3922 "2019-11-07T14:26:48Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Thank you, I do my best. :bashful: Hey, I think you could do an emoticon for that! 😉 Re: Barr - heard that on the radio 1st thing this a.m. That guy is confounding, the way he vacillates wildly between doing Trump’s bidding with no apparent sense of ethics, to giving evidence of having a spine/morality. :smack: It really is going to be interesting to see what a few people in a few districts of 2-3 states have to say about the direction our nation will take. The more I hear, the less I think many peoples’ minds will change. There are apparently a great many people who accept what Trump is turning our presidency into, saying, “So what?!” I’m wondering who those folk “in the middle” might be, and how they will react. Folk who actually have some preference that our president ought to adhere to SOME minimal standards of decency - whatever the politics involved. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3923 "2019-11-07T14:44:00Z")
Elections matter. Regardless of what happens with the KY governorship, the GOP is an overall 0-3 on elections since 2016. There was a time, now quickly ending, where a lot of people thought they could possibly get away with this. But Trump himself… and the passing of time… and the growing discontent of the People towards the entire GOP slate, as expressed through our _political_ and _electoral_ actions… and the growing realization that this is actually a lot more than they bargained for (bribing foreign entities with taxpayer dollars to steal taxpayer votes? Few people signed up for _that_!)… and the realization that none of this is ever going to go away… and the sudden awareness that there are a FUCK LOT OF PEOPLE WHO AREN"T INVESTED IN THIS who are now testifying to Congress as if Trump doesn’t matter in the long-term… and seeing that Cohen, Flynn, Manafort, and a lot more of Trump cohorts are in jail… and they see how quickly they can become the enemy… and they see the quality of individual who _is_ lining up for Trump vs. the chest of military ribbons on those testifying against him… Combine the above _with_ the election results and, yeah, some GOPers are sniffing the changing winds, and even for the worse of them, this is getting too much for them to handle. It’s funny seeing Matt Gaetz, who 2, 3 weeks ago led a foolish charge of 23 GOPers into the SCIF, now gives impeachment-related press conferences all by his lonesome, or, at best, with a few other low-wattage, low-character individuals standing by his side like Gym Jordan. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3924 "2019-11-07T14:54:17Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Elections matter. Regardless of what happens with the KY governorship, the GOP is an overall 0-3 on elections since 2016… Much as I wish it were so, it isn’t: [Special elections to the 115th United States Congress (2017-2018) - Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/Special_elections_to_the_115th_United_States_Congress_(2017-2018)) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3925 "2019-11-07T15:02:13Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Much as I wish it were so, it isn’t: [Special elections to the 115th United States Congress (2017-2018) - Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/Special_elections_to_the_115th_United_States_Congress_(2017-2018)) Point taken. They are 1-2 in total votes. But the shift can be seen even in those numbers: while the R’s took the overall house count 9-8, they went in with a 13-4 advantage. Not a single D lost to an R, but 4 R’s lost to D’s. So I withdraw my concession ( 😛 ) and conclude that the Dems did “win” 2017 even if they lost the overall House contests 9-8. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3926 "2019-11-07T15:40:52Z")
Lindsay Graham says that Trump’s Ukraine policy is “too incoherent” to amount to a quid pro quo: [Graham: Trump’s Ukraine policy too ‘incoherent’ to pull off quid pro quo](https://news.yahoo.com/graham-trump-ukraine-incoherent-quid-pro-quo-192210175.html) Well, two things here. One, the thing that is absolutely clear is that if Ukraine did not give this (dirt on the Bidens) they would not get that (military assistance). There is no part of that that was ever unclear and it has been confirmed by multiple officials. Two, are we back to the “Trump is too dumb to be a crook” defense? I hope they run with that, it is the most entertaining option. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3927 "2019-11-07T15:47:43Z")
I like that Democrats are starting to use the term “extortion” rather than “quid pro quo”. I think it’s more accurate. Quid pro quo is where both sides agree to do something that benefits both parties. Ukraine was extorted into doing something against its will in order to get what it already had coming. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3928 "2019-11-07T15:48:50Z")
“Sir, the ticket… wait… are you Lindsey Graham, the Senator?” “Yes I ay-am.” “Wow. OK, Sir, the ticket shows you speeding at 77 miles per hour in a 50 zone. How do you plead?” “Not Guilty, you’re honor.” “Very good, plea entered. Would you mind making your case, Senator?” “I got caught, right? Therefore, you should throw out this case.” “I beg your pardon?” “I got caught, you see. I was so incompetent at speeding that I couldn’t even do it correctly. The very fact that I got caught speeding means that my incompetency forces you to make a declarative judgement that I was too incompetent to speed, and that this case should be thrown out.” “…” “Your Honor?” “…” :nervous chuckles: “Sir?” “Get. Out.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3929 "2019-11-07T16:09:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I like that Democrats are starting to use the term “extortion” rather than “quid pro quo”. I think it’s more accurate. Quid pro quo is where both sides agree to do something that benefits both parties. Ukraine was extorted into doing something against its will in order to get what it already had coming. Though, to be clear, trying to use the powers of a foreign state to aid your personal interests is criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3930 "2019-11-07T17:20:25Z")
[_CNN_](https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/impeachment-inquiry-11-07-2019/index.html): > [@](#): > > John Bolton, Trump’s former national security adviser, is scheduled to testify today, but chances that he’ll show up are slim. > … > The House Intelligence Committee did not issue a subpoena to former national security adviser John Bolton after his attorney threatened to go to court to fight it, according to a committee official. > > “We would welcome John Bolton’s deposition and he did not appear as he was requested today. His counsel has informed us that unlike three other dedicated public servants who worked for him on the NSC and have complied with lawful subpoenas, Mr. Bolton would take us to court if we subpoenaed him,” the official said in a statement provided to CNN. “We regret Mr. Bolton’s decision not to appear voluntarily, but we have no interest in allowing the Administration to play rope-a-dope with us in the courts for months. Rather, the White House instruction that he not appear will add to the evidence of the President’s obstruction of Congress.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3931 "2019-11-07T18:10:53Z")
So make Bolton take the House to court. Get his name on the record as having defied a subpoena. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3932 "2019-11-07T18:29:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So make Bolton take the House to court. Get his name on the record as having defied a subpoena. That is the Republican plan-to tie as much up in the courts as possible as a stall tactic. It is better to just use the fact that he refused as further evidence of obstruction. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3933 "2019-11-07T18:34:55Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > But nothing hasty has happened yet. House Democrats are being very deliberate considering the circumstances, and Republicans are making nonsense arguments in response. What’s your beef? Bar that temporary misunderstanding I had about the Oversight Committee’s authority, I don’t have an issue with the current process. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3934 "2019-11-07T18:36:57Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So make Bolton take the House to court. Get his name on the record as having defied a subpoena. Just to be clear, fighting a subpoena in court is not defying a subpoena. It’s exactly what you should do if you don’t think you should have to comply with it. And it is a pretty reasonable response if the president told him that his testimony would be covered by executive privilege and Trump was asserting the privilege. Bolton was a high level advisor, and if he was not involved in the conspiracy, the privilege may actually apply to whatever advice he tried to give. I guess this is likely one reason he made clear that he intended to testify if subpoenaed – to let the White house know that Trump needed to actually assert the privilege to stop him. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3935 "2019-11-07T19:05:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That is the Republican plan-to tie as much up in the courts as possible as a stall tactic. It is better to just use the fact that he refused as further evidence of obstruction. Let 'em stall! Let’s drag this thing as far into next year as we can. More good stuff seems to turn up every day, and everything the House brings to light and verifies is ammunition against Trump in the campaign (if the Senate acquits) or against Pence (if they convict and remove). ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3936 "2019-11-07T19:16:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wonder if the Democrats ought to very conspicuously praise Bill Barr for his decision to not give into Trump’s desire for rhetorical exculpation. Very, very conspicuously. On twitter, and in public, and elsewhere. Over and over again. A neat idea but it could backfire when the time comes to impeach Barr. His reluctance to accommodate Trump’s demands might be held as an example of his ‘fundamental integrity and respect for the law’. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3937 "2019-11-07T19:17:20Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Let 'em stall! Let’s drag this thing as far into next year as we can. More good stuff seems to turn up every day, and everything the House brings to light and verifies is ammunition against Trump in the campaign (if the Senate acquits) or against Pence (if they convict and remove). Whose side are you on here? You seem to want to stall this thing until everyone tires out and gives up. Get this done with before they manufacture another Trump fiasco to draw attention from this one. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3938 "2019-11-07T19:37:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Whose side are you on here? You seem to want to stall this thing until everyone tires out and gives up. Get this done with before they manufacture another Trump fiasco to draw attention from this one. My fear is that a November impeachment followed by a December acquittal will let Trump crow about his innocence all next year. And if new impeachable offenses come to light, a second round will prompt nothing but shrugs and eyerolls. Whereas an ongoing investigation allows those new offenses (and you know they’re out there) to be rolled into a much bigger, more damning indictment with the added bonus of being fresher in people’s minds as election day nears. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3939 "2019-11-07T19:47:07Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > My fear is that a November impeachment followed by a December acquittal will let Trump crow about his innocence all next year. And if new impeachable offenses come to light, a second round will prompt nothing but shrugs and eyerolls. > > Whereas an ongoing investigation allows those new offenses (and you know they’re out there) to be rolled into a much bigger, more damning indictment with the added bonus of being fresher in people’s minds as election day nears. Let the Republicans crow “Four whole years, and they got _nothing_!”? Not smart. Here’s another thing about giving them enough rope to hang themselves-If you don’t hang on to the other end of that rope it’ll disappear entirely. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/3940 "2019-11-07T19:49:09Z")
Of course, the actual response is much better: a shrug, an added charge, and a statement telling Bolton, Kupperman, et al, it’s too late: > [@](#): > > Plus Democrats also withdrew a subpoena of a former White House official to ensure their proceedings were not delayed by a court battle. Schiff also decided Thursday not to subpoena someone who could have been a star witness – former national security adviser John Bolton, who privately raised concerns about the Ukraine scandal at the heart of the impeachment probe. Schiff’s decision came after the former Trump aide’s counsel warned they would sue over any subpoena. Democrats’ new moves show House could wrap up impeachment by Christmas [https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics/democrat-impeachment-timeline/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics/democrat-impeachment-timeline/index.html) “Naw, we good bro. We don’t need John Bolton. Y’all sit over there now and be quiet.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=196) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=198)