# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/381 "2019-09-25T22:09:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Now, the one that I suspect you’ll dispute more heavily: Did President Trump make a “promise” or quid pro quo in the “transcript”? If you think so, please show your work. I had a snappy retort all loaded up, but I see _Euphonius Polemic_ beat me to it. I kinda wish all Trump supporters were shop owners in the Bronx during the 1950s (when Donnie was growing up there) and after the third or fourth times their windows had been broken, and a couple of Molotov cocktails were thrown in, they could all tell the cops, “The goons kept asking me if I could do them a ‘favor.’ No one ever said it was a quid pro quo!” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/382 "2019-09-25T22:11:11Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Regarding the second point: well spotted. That’s exactly what some Republican mook was trying to shovel out a few minutes ago on NPR. “Hunter Biden was getting up to $50,000/month!” (“up to” since no one, at the moment, seems able to cough up the actual figure) [The NYT reported back in May](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.html): > [@](#): > > Hunter Biden’s work in Ukraine appears to have been well compensated. Burisma paid $3.4 million to a company called Rosemont Seneca Bohai LLC from mid-April 2014, when Hunter Biden and Mr. Archer joined the board, to late 2015, according to the financial data provided by the Ukrainian deputy prosecutor. The payments continued after that, according to people familiar with the arrangement. > > Rosemont Seneca Bohai was controlled by Mr. Archer, who left Burisma’s board after he was charged in connection with a scheme to defraud pension funds and an Indian tribe of tens of millions of dollars. Bank records submitted in that case — which resulted in a conviction for Mr. Archer that was overturned in November — show that Rosemont Seneca Bohai made regular payments to Mr. Biden that totaled as much as $50,000 in some months. [The Hill offered a little more detail](https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/436816-joe-bidens-2020-ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived): > [@](#): > > Between April 2014 and October 2015, more than $3 million was paid out of Burisma accounts to an account linked to Biden’s and Archer’s Rosemont Seneca firm, according to the financial records placed in a federal court file in Manhattan in an unrelated case against Archer. > > The bank records show that, on most months when Burisma money flowed, two wire transfers of $83,333.33 each were sent to the Rosemont Seneca–connected account on the same day. The same Rosemont Seneca–linked account typically then would pay Hunter Biden one or more payments ranging from $5,000 to $25,000 each. Prosecutors reviewed internal company documents and wanted to interview Hunter Biden and Archer about why they had received such payments, according to interviews. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/383 "2019-09-25T22:12:52Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > How about I don’t give 2 shits about previous reporting … I suspect you’ll not get any closer to acknowledging the reality that the previous reporting on this subject was plain wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/384 "2019-09-25T22:17:51Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What’s sad is that if Trump literally said that, first you’d be confused that he strung a few coherent sentences together, but then his support would probably only drop 1-2% anyway. If Trump did literally say that, you may get a few responses: - Fake media, never happened. - The president is allowed to do this. It’s not illegal. - What about Hillary? And Biden should be investigated. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/385 "2019-09-25T22:19:15Z")
[The 8 times Trump urged Ukraine’s leader to help with investigations](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/times-trump-urged-ukraines-leader-investigate-biden/story?id=65850945) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/386 "2019-09-25T22:19:26Z")
And I see the pivot is happening here now: “Biden is bad. His family should be the ones investigated!” People should be embarrassed to do this. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/387 "2019-09-25T22:19:44Z")
Requoted from **Lance Turbo** ’s post #341: > [@](#): > > TRUMP: That’s what I heard. I heard it’s owned by a very rich Ukrainian, that’s what I heard. But they brought in another company to investigate the server. Why didn’t they allow the FBI in to investigate the server? I mean, there is so many things that nobody writes about. It’s incredible. As an aside, this is such classic Trump: “I hear all kinds of stuff but for some reason I am completely incapable of determining whether what I’m hearing is accurate or not.” As much of a bullshit tell as the old “All these world leaders were coming up to me and saying ‘Sir, no president has ever been treated as badly as you’”, which is another classic he apparently trotted out today. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/388 "2019-09-25T22:19:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > AFAICT President Trump never “mentioned it on a call” that he was withholding aid until Ukraine did what he wanted. Certainly nothing like “If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money.” Please tell me you understand at least that much. AFAICT, the idea that Viktor Shokin was investigating Burisma Holdings and Hunter Biden is a conspiracy theory by John Solomon, and Shokin was actually corrupt as fuck. Please tell me you understand at least that much. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/389 "2019-09-25T22:19:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I suspect you’ll not get any closer to acknowledging the reality that the previous reporting on this subject was plain wrong. No, you won’t get me to change the subject. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/390 "2019-09-25T22:20:04Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Read the article linked in post #336, then feel free to come back and outline where you think the author is wrong. > > Here it is again, so you don’t even have to scroll back: > > [https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-trump-ukraine-transcript-contains-evidence-of-a-quid-pro-quo/amp/?\_\_twitter\_impression=true](https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-trump-ukraine-transcript-contains-evidence-of-a-quid-pro-quo/amp/?__twitter_impression=true) I read it. It doesn’t show where President Trump made a “promise” either. It’s perfectly clear in the transcript that he wanted the Ukranians to look into the Crowdstrike server and Hunter Biden’s corruption. What’s not clear is what Ukraine was going to get as a result of doing that. The “promise” from President Trump isn’t there. He doesn’t say something like " do X, Y, and Z and you’ll get your Javelins" or “once you’ve done that, I’ll make sure you get the aid money you’ve been waiting for”. I understand some of you think that’s _implied_, but it’s not _stated_, can we agree on at least that basic fact? ---
**Author:** ![DCTrekkie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dctrekkie/32/18862_2.png) [@DCTrekkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCTrekkie)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/391 "2019-09-25T22:20:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I suspect you’ll not get any closer to acknowledging the reality that the previous reporting on this subject was plain wrong. So your argument is that, because he was previously reported to have done 8 illegal things, he should get a pass as it was only actually 1 illegal thing (ignoring the fact that this is one of many phone calls in the whistleblowers report)? That’s an unusual understanding of how the law works. Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/392 "2019-09-25T22:21:07Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > [The 8 times Trump urged Ukraine’s leader to help with investigations](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/times-trump-urged-ukraines-leader-investigate-biden/story?id=65850945) And that’s in ONE call. What about other calls? What about Trump sending his personal lawyer\* Guliani to talk to Ukraine officials about finding dirt on Biden? \*co-conspirator ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/393 "2019-09-25T22:22:13Z")
Also it should be pointed out that pretty much every request that any president makes to a foreign leader implicitly has quid pro quo attached to it. This is how Diplomacy works. Other countries do what the president requests because they think that doing so will improve their relationship with the United States, and failing to do so would hurt this relationship. It doesn’t matter if the specific advantages of acceding to the request, or the consequences of failing to accede are explicitly spelled out. The pressure is there. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/394 "2019-09-25T22:24:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I read it. It doesn’t show where President Trump made a “promise” either. It’s perfectly clear in the transcript that he wanted the Ukranians to look into the Crowdstrike server and Hunter Biden’s corruption. What’s not clear is what Ukraine was going to get as a result of doing that. The “promise” from President Trump isn’t there. He doesn’t say something like " do X, Y, and Z and you’ll get your Javelins" or “once you’ve done that, I’ll make sure you get the aid money you’ve been waiting for”. I understand some of you think that’s _implied_, but it’s not _stated_, can we agree on at least that basic fact? Trump had personally withheld the money that Congress had assigned to the Ukraine for defense shortly before this call. The “reasons” for this coming out of the White House were wildly contradictory. Congressional leaders were not happy with this. You have to be willfully obtuse not to see the obvious connection. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/395 "2019-09-25T22:25:25Z")
‘The Washington Post reported that the whistleblower complaint had been triggered by a “promise” by Trump. He denies there was any sort of promise or quid pro quo.’ That is not a claim that there is a promise in the transcript of the call. The whistleblower complaint is about more than just one phone call. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/396 "2019-09-25T22:28:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [The NYT reported back in May](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.html): > > [The Hill offered a little more detail](https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/436816-joe-bidens-2020-ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived): Thanks for the additional detail. Doesn’t really change anything regarding Trump’s apparent shakedown of the Ukrainian President, as far as I can see. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/397 "2019-09-25T22:33:51Z")
[Wall Street Journal stands behind ‘eight times’ scoop on Trump and Ukrainian president](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/09/25/wall-street-journal-stands-behind-eight-times-scoop-trump-ukrainian-president/) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/398 "2019-09-25T22:34:06Z")
‘Senator Sasse (R-NE) after reading the whistleblower complaint: “…Republicans ought not to be rushing to circle the wagons to say there’s no there there when there’s obviously lots that’s very troubling there…”.’ > > > Jason Donner @jason\_donner ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/399 "2019-09-25T22:34:19Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > AFAICT, the idea that Viktor Shokin was investigating Burisma Holdings and Hunter Biden is a conspiracy theory by John Solomon, and Shokin was actually corrupt as fuck. Please tell me you understand at least that much. You aren’t familiar with Ditka, are you? The response will be “Well, that’s one opinion. Every law enforcement agency in the Western world believes that Shokin was corrupt as fuck, and some guy on Breitbart feels otherwise. Only a partisan extremist would jump to conclusions about which is more likely to be correct!” ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/400 "2019-09-25T22:35:28Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You have to be willfully obtuse not to see the obvious connection. Yes. Yes, you certainly do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=21)