# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 208
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4141 "2019-11-12T14:49:07Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > That would actually be a perfect response. “We’re not interested in hearing from people who were not directly involved in this matter. We’ve heard several credible witnesses describe the president’s actions and motivations, so in the interests of complete fairness we want to hear the other side of the story straight from the president himself.” It _would_ be nice to see [life imitating art](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-95QqBXLG2I). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4142 "2019-11-12T15:07:52Z")
I don’t believe I’ve ever patted myself on the back for making a perfect phone call. But I have now seen a perfect analogy: [Tom Tomorrow’s Great Bank Robbery cartoon.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/11/11/1898482/-Cartoon-The-great-bank-robbery) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4143 "2019-11-12T15:14:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A secret ballot in the Senate could make removal much, much more likely: > > [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/11/12/path-to-removing-donald-trump-from-office-229911](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/11/12/path-to-removing-donald-trump-from-office-229911) > > “It would take just three Republican senators to turn the impeachment vote into a secret ballot.” > > The way it would work is the following, according to the article: the Senate sets their own rules for impeachment, per the Constitution. Rules need a majority vote. Three Republicans would be enough to prevent a majority vote on the rules, and they could condition their support for setting the rules upon making the vote secret. > > Probably a long shot, but certainly worth exploring. I already posted that link. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21968199&postcount=4133](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21968199&postcount=4133) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4144 "2019-11-12T15:14:40Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I already posted that link. > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21968199&postcount=4133](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21968199&postcount=4133) Apologies! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4145 "2019-11-12T15:31:07Z")
A Republican memo bullet points 4 defensive talking points, none of which address the core of why the phone call was a violation of Trumps duty to his countrymen: "…The July 25 call summary "shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure. Ukrainian "President (Volodymyr) Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call. The Ukrainian government was not aware of the hold on U.S. assistance" during the July 25 call. The security assistance hold was lifted on September 11. " > **[House Republicans lay out central defenses of Trump in memo ahead of public...](https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/12/politics/house-republicans-trump-memo-impeachment-defense/index.html)** > > The Republican staff on the three panels involved in the impeachment investigation have drafted a detailed memo, circulated to GOP members of all three committees and obtained by CNN, outlining their defense of President Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4146 "2019-11-12T16:12:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t believe I’ve ever patted myself on the back for making a perfect phone call. But I have now seen a perfect analogy: [Tom Tomorrow’s Great Bank Robbery cartoon.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/11/11/1898482/-Cartoon-The-great-bank-robbery) Ogod, that is priceless. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4147 "2019-11-12T17:32:09Z")
[_NBC News_](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/private-speech-bolton-suggests-some-trump-s-foreign-policy-decisions-n1080651): > [@](#): > > Former national security adviser John Bolton derided President Donald Trump’s daughter and son-in-law during a private speech last week and suggested his former boss’ approach to U.S. policy on Turkey is motivated by personal or financial interests, several people who were present for the remarks told NBC News. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4148 "2019-11-12T17:39:57Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t believe I’ve ever patted myself on the back for making a perfect phone call. But I have now seen a perfect analogy: [Tom Tomorrow’s Great Bank Robbery cartoon.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/11/11/1898482/-Cartoon-The-great-bank-robbery) I usually hate Tom Tomorrow as being so incredibly tedious, but that is a perfect illustration of the nonsense that Republicans are attempting to pass off as a serious defense. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4149 "2019-11-12T18:08:41Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > They’re the real speeders! Here is a photograph of my dashboard which shows my speedometer at 95 mph when I passed the traffic camera. It clearly proves my innocence. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4150 "2019-11-12T18:16:16Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Here is a photograph of my dashboard which shows my speedometer at 95 mph when I passed the traffic camera. It clearly proves my innocence. And here’s an earlier photograph of my dashboard which clearly is more important - it shows that I wasn’t moving at all. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4151 "2019-11-12T18:24:41Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I usually hate Tom Tomorrow as being so incredibly tedious, but that is a perfect illustration of the nonsense that Republicans are attempting to pass off as a serious defense. Love the fixation on the 911 caller and the signs that say “watch the footage”. Historians will not be kind to this current crop of Republicans- why are they choosing to die on this hill and prostitute their reputations away for this scumbag? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4152 "2019-11-12T20:09:48Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t believe I’ve ever patted myself on the back for making a perfect phone call. But I have now seen a perfect analogy: [Tom Tomorrow’s Great Bank Robbery cartoon.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/11/11/1898482/-Cartoon-The-great-bank-robbery) “As a principled libertarian, I believe we should use the full power of the state against this whistleblower!” \ ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4153 "2019-11-12T20:59:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Love the fixation on the 911 caller and the signs that say “watch the footage”. Historians will not be kind to this current crop of Republicans- why are they choosing to die on this hill and prostitute their reputations away for this scumbag? 1. According to Bannon (via Mueller), the RNC was working with WikiLeaks. 2. According to Mueller, a number of Republican congressmen were receiving DNC documents from the Russians. 3. The NRA seems to have been fronting money to the RNC from Russia. So that could be an element of their excessive levels of defense. But, actually, I think the answer is not that. I saw someone here on the SDMB (probably in this thread) mention a while back that they hoped that no proof that Trump was being blackmailed by Turkey would come out, because what would that do to the country? And that’s someone who was opposed to Trump. I think that it’s very possible that the cartoon character level of defense for Trump by people like Nunes and Jordan might be because they’re suppressing the extremity of the anxiety that they’d feel if they accepted what is clear from the secure transcripts and conversations that they’ve had with our intelligence agencies. If Trump has done the things that the CIA and FBI believe he has done, then we’ve elected a traitor to the Presidency. That can’t be and the information must be wrong and a conspiracy against the President! Because…the alternative is that that’s the reality. Basically, they’re either complicit or the horror of the situation is so grave that it’s better to be complicit. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4154 "2019-11-12T21:11:50Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Politico has an interesting article on what may be a plausible path to conviction in the Senate. Supposedly all it would take would be 3 Republican Senators agreeing to a secret ballot. > [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/11/12/path-to-removing-donald-trump-from-office-229911](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/11/12/path-to-removing-donald-trump-from-office-229911) > > How plausible is this? It strikes me that it could lead to an indefinite deadlock. Not possible if 20 Senators are actually on Trump’s side, and realize that a public vote will acquit him. Article 1 section 5: “the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the Desire of one fifth of those Present, be entered on the Journal”. ETA: I suppose the majority could decide that the vote should be “secret” and not published with the rest of the journal, but it would be recorded for posterity, and liable for declassification/publication by some future Congress. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4155 "2019-11-12T22:28:30Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > … the House is going to have to lay out a relatively simple, easy-for-the-public to understand narrative that directly implicates the President. The child separation policy is horrible, but it’s too easy to muddy the narrative with stories of the hordes of people swamping our borders, and so forth. > > The House needs to stick to one or two stories, stay within the bounds of those stories, and direct the questioning of witnesses in a way that lays out each step of the malfeasance as unequivocally as possible… I have to agree with this. I feel the pain of those who want to see Trump held accountable for every one of his outrages—but that must happen after he’s out of office, I fear. Any chance that impeachment-and-trial has of removing him depends upon thwarting the GOP strategy, which is to make 99% of Americans throw up their hands and declare “it’s just too damned complicated.” Keeping the articles of impeachment to Ukraine alone will _still_ result in masses of GOP water-muddying: > [@bobot](#): > > A Republican memo bullet points 4 defensive talking points, none of which address the core of why the phone call was a violation of Trumps duty to his countrymen: > > "…The July 25 call summary "shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure. > > Ukrainian "President (Volodymyr) Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call. > > The Ukrainian government was not aware of the hold on U.S. assistance" during the July 25 call. > > The security assistance hold was lifted on September 11. " > [https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/12/politics/house-republicans-trump-memo-impeachment-defense/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/12/politics/house-republicans-trump-memo-impeachment-defense/index.html) For each of these dubious points the Republicans will offer voluminous mounds of “evidence”. Remember, the rules give the Republicans 45 minutes to lay out their case without interruption. They are going to concentrate on naming dozens (hundreds?) of people who are ‘crucial to understanding’ each of those four talking points, and for each, dozens of “facts” that are, you guessed it, also ‘crucial to understanding’. If the at-home viewers’ heads aren’t spinning at the end of the GOP 45 minutes, I’ll be shocked. They will make each point seem like an unsolvable mystery–a labyrinth through which no one could make their way. And if they had six or eight different articles of impeachment, instead of just Ukraine…well, their job of obfuscation would be that much easier. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4156 "2019-11-12T22:31:36Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > What does the kids in cages charge look like? > > > [@](#): > > > > Felony child abuse x several thousand, not to mention human rights violations coming out the wazoo. > > I’m with you but lots of rebupkis actually like the kids in cages, and now they have a past practice argument to rely on. We’re not going to win over his hardcore 40%. Best we can do is unify a very angry 60% against him. > [@carlb](#): > > The child separation policy is horrible, but it’s too easy to muddy the narrative with stories of the hordes of people swamping our borders, and so forth. **Any** narrative can be muddied enough for the 40% to buy into the mud. I think the majority can get their heads around three or four offenses of sufficient severity. Can’t see what would bump this one out of the top three. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4157 "2019-11-12T23:25:59Z")
I doubt if too many people on either side are going to watch the hearings. They’ll rely on their favorite media outlets/pundits to tell them what was said. Just like now. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4158 "2019-11-13T00:11:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I think the majority can get their heads around three or four offenses of sufficient severity. Can’t see what would bump this one out of the top three. How about, nobody gave a shit when this was at the height of its publicity. Most Americans just don’t give that much a shit about what happens to people who come here illegally. Yes, I know that a great number were probably legit asylum seekers. Americans don’t give a shit about that either. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4159 "2019-11-13T00:53:40Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I have to agree with this. I feel the pain of those who want to see Trump held accountable for every one of his outrages—but that must happen after he’s out of office, I fear. And _ **that** _ is the #1 thing Trump fears. As soon as he isn’t President any more, either through impeachment or by losing the next election (dear gods, please let it be one or the other!), there are a slew of charges waiting for him. New York won’t have to fight for his taxes any more. Prosecutors cited him as an un-indicted co-conspirator in the Cohen sentencing memo. There are two lawsuits that I’m aware of in DC and Maryland over alleged emoluments violations. Eight members of his election team have already been indicted in relation to the Mueller report. Several women are alleging sexual assault, though I’m unaware of any filing charges. Trump escaped any charges so far entirely due to the “presidential immunity” nonsense. Joe Schmoe off the street can’t claim any kind of immunity. He’s very,\* very \*afraid of being a Joe. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4160 "2019-11-13T01:00:33Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > And _ **that** _ is the #1 thing Trump fears. As soon as he isn’t President any more, either through impeachment or by losing the next election (dear gods, please let it be one or the other!), there are a slew of charges waiting for him. New York won’t have to fight for his taxes any more. Prosecutors cited him as an un-indicted co-conspirator in the Cohen sentencing memo. There are two lawsuits that I’m aware of in DC and Maryland over alleged emoluments violations. Eight members of his election team have already been indicted in relation to the Mueller report. Several women are alleging sexual assault, though I’m unaware of any filing charges. Trump escaped any charges so far entirely due to the “presidential immunity” nonsense. Joe Schmoe off the street can’t claim any kind of immunity. > > He’s very,\* very \*afraid of being a Joe. Absolutely. And a cornered narcissistic lawless sociopath is a _dangerous_ narcissistic lawless sociopath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=207) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=209)