# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 224
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4461 "2019-11-14T16:49:45Z")
nm (duplicate) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4462 "2019-11-14T16:53:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s been a recent GOP talking point that impeachment is based on hearsay. This is false. We will be hearing from several witnesses who were directly involved and spoke to Trump himself. We also got a “transcript” directly from the White House. That’s not remotely hearsay. Remember when Mick Mulvaney went on TV and said that Trump committed a quid pro quo? Why, that’s nothing but hearsay. Mick said it, and we heard it, so it isn’t admissible. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4463 "2019-11-14T17:00:38Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I ask this in all honesty, and just a simple question. I won’t even argue against the answer, because I just want to understand the thought process. > > What difference does the whistlelblower’s intentions or motivations make? > > For the sake of argument, let’s say that this whistleblower is a card carrying Democrat who loves Joe Biden. He has been lying in wait for the opportunity to take down the Trump administration because he hates them. He is 100% politically motivated. > > How does that change anything at all? To make the worst possible analogy for the Democrats case here, if drug dealer #1 reports another drug dealer #2 for dealing drugs because he wants drug dealer #2 out of the way, do the police have to let drug dealer #2 off the hook? What does the motivation of the person reporting the crime have to do with the underlying crime itself? Remember on 9/11 how they wouldn’t stop talking about the person who first called 911? Or how the guy who first noticed Benedict Arnold’s treachery is always talked about? Of course you don’t because they didn’t talk about it. It makes no difference whatsoever who it was or why he did it. All that matters is uncovering the facts about the crime that the whistleblower reported. The right wing wants to expose him so that if he indeed was a Democrat, that would in their mind nullify the whole investigation. Apparently crimes can only be investigated if the person reporting it is of the same political persuasion as the perpetrator. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4464 "2019-11-14T17:02:34Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I ask this in all honesty, and just a simple question. I won’t even argue against the answer, because I just want to understand the thought process. > > What difference does the whistlelblower’s intentions or motivations make? > > For the sake of argument, let’s say that this whistleblower is a card carrying Democrat who loves Joe Biden. He has been lying in wait for the opportunity to take down the Trump administration because he hates them. He is 100% politically motivated. > > How does that change anything at all? To make the worst possible analogy for the Democrats case here, if drug dealer #1 reports another drug dealer #2 for dealing drugs because he wants drug dealer #2 out of the way, do the police have to let drug dealer #2 off the hook? What does the motivation of the person reporting the crime have to do with the underlying crime itself? I just wanted to add that law enforcement actively encourages criminals to turn in other criminals that they dislike. They even foment discord if it means they catch more criminals. They even PAY people to anonymously turn in criminals. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4465 "2019-11-14T17:04:55Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > … I don’t think your dumb … :smack:;)😃 Aside from the little good-natured jab at the grammatical error above, and in spite of the fact that you started out the post calling me “part of the problem with what’s wrong with America today”, and recognizing that you didn’t actually ask me any questions, I still feel compelled to respond to your post. Regarding “Trump is a very bad person”, I think our positions might actually align fairly closely on this. I don’t think he’s someone of high moral character. For example, he appears to have cheated on all three of his wives. But, I think we settled back in the '90’s that a president’s personal moral failings aren’t a good enough reason for him to not be president. Regarding “Trump is also a very bad president”, I disagree. My taxes have been cut and the economy is booming. ISIS is defeated (at least to the extent that their leadership is dead and they no longer effectively control territory in Iraq or Syria). The courts are getting filled with judges and justices that respect the Constitution. North Korea is no longer launching missiles over Japan (and yes, I’m aware that a SLBM landed in Japan’s EEZ a couple of weeks ago). Efforts are underway to curb illegal immigration. Overall, I think his record as president has been rather decent, surprisingly good, in fact. I’m comfortably part of [the ~44%](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html) that approve of the job President Trump is doing. Many of the remaining things that you see as “obvious” are not obvious to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4466 "2019-11-14T17:09:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > : > Regarding “Trump is also a very bad president”, I disagree. My taxes have been cut and the economy is booming. ISIS is defeated (at least to the extent that their leadership is dead and they no longer effectively control territory in Iraq or Syria). The courts are getting filled with judges and justices that respect the Constitution. North Korea is no longer launching missiles over Japan (and yes, I’m aware that a SLBM landed in Japan’s EEZ a couple of weeks ago). Efforts are underway to curb illegal immigration. Overall, I think his record as president has been rather decent, surprisingly good, in fact. I’m comfortably part of [the ~44%](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html) that approve of the job President Trump is doing. Do you think President Pence would screw that all up? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4467 "2019-11-14T17:15:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > : > Regarding “Trump is also a very bad president”, I disagree. My taxes have been cut and the economy is booming. ISIS is defeated (at least to the extent that their leadership is dead and they no longer effectively control territory in Iraq or Syria). The courts are getting filled with judges and justices that respect the Constitution. North Korea is no longer launching missiles over Japan (and yes, I’m aware that a SLBM landed in Japan’s EEZ a couple of weeks ago). Efforts are underway to curb illegal immigration. Overall, I think his record as president has been rather decent, surprisingly good, in fact. I’m comfortably part of [the ~44%](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html) that approve of the job President Trump is doing. > > Many of the remaining things that you see as “obvious” are not obvious to me. lawyers, guns and money trump competence, decency, and integrity. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4468 "2019-11-14T17:15:28Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I ask this in all honesty, and just a simple question. I won’t even argue against the answer, because I just want to understand the thought process. > > What difference does the whistlelblower’s intentions or motivations make? > > For the sake of argument, let’s say that this whistleblower is a card carrying Democrat who loves Joe Biden. He has been lying in wait for the opportunity to take down the Trump administration because he hates them. He is 100% politically motivated. > > How does that change anything at all? To make the worst possible analogy for the Democrats case here, if drug dealer #1 reports another drug dealer #2 for dealing drugs because he wants drug dealer #2 out of the way, do the police have to let drug dealer #2 off the hook? What does the motivation of the person reporting the crime have to do with the underlying crime itself? Impeachment isn’t a criminal justice proceeding. It’s a political process. To be more specific, what is happening right now is a giant PR battle, where both sides try to persuade enough voters to their position to sway senators to their position. If the public learns that Ciaramella was a deeply-partisan actor, motivated not by some altruistic sense of duty but by partisan biases and political machinations to “take down” President Trump, and secretly colluding with Schiff’s staff prior to the complaint, that information is likely to sway some number of voters to the Republican side of the PR battle. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4469 "2019-11-14T17:18:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Impeachment isn’t a criminal justice proceeding. It’s a political process. To be more specific, what is happening right now is a giant PR battle, where both sides try to persuade enough voters to their position to sway senators to their position. If the public learns that Ciaramella was a deeply-partisan actor, motivated not by some altruistic sense of duty but by partisan biases and political machinations to “take down” President Trump, and secretly colluding with Schiff’s staff prior to the complaint, that information is likely to sway some number of voters to the Republican side of the PR battle. in other words, your guys are trying to Swiftboat a CIA employee who said things that have been proven true. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4470 "2019-11-14T17:21:47Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Do you think President Pence would screw that all up? It’s not that I think President Pence would “screw that all up”, but that he’d have a harder time winning the 2020 election than an exonerated / acquitted President Trump. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4471 "2019-11-14T17:21:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Impeachment isn’t a criminal justice proceeding. It’s a political process. To be more specific, what is happening right now is a giant PR battle, where both sides try to persuade enough voters to their position to sway senators to their position. If the public learns that Ciaramella was a deeply-partisan actor, motivated not by some altruistic sense of duty but by partisan biases and political machinations to “take down” President Trump, and secretly colluding with Schiff’s staff prior to the complaint, that information is likely to sway some number of voters to the Republican side of the PR battle. Exposing someone to death threats because you think it might help your side in a political squabble is a pretty shitty thing to do. Can we agree on that? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4472 "2019-11-14T17:26:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not that I think President Pence would “screw that all up”, but that he’d have a harder time winning the 2020 election than an exonerated / acquitted President Trump. Interesting. It’s common knowledge that quite a few Republican politicians can’t stand Trump but won’t break with him for fear they will lose their next election. I hadn’t considered that Trump voters will continue to support Trump on the basis that they can’t see a future of the party without Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4473 "2019-11-14T17:27:53Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > And anyone who is a liberal is really a socialist. More accurate to say _guilty_ of being a socialist or liberal. It is GOP guilt mechanics 101: if the guilt can be located on the WB, then that is the end of it and Trump is exonerated because the guilt can only exist in one location at a time. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4474 "2019-11-14T17:29:35Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Exposing someone to death threats because you think it might help your side in a political squabble is a pretty shitty thing to do. Can we agree on that? Probably not. Dr. Blasey Ford and her allies exposed Justice Kavanaugh’s family to death threats because they thought it might help their side in a political squabble. I don’t recall many Democrats saying that was “a pretty shitty thing to do”, so the complaint now rings hollow to me. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4475 "2019-11-14T17:31:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Probably not. Dr. Blasey Ford and her allies exposed Justice Kavanaugh’s family to death threats because they thought it might help their side in a political squabble. I don’t recall many Democrats saying that was “a pretty shitty thing to do”, so the complaint now rings hollow to me. Sorry. You’re seriously putting Kavanaugh in the shoes of being a whisteblower? Man, have you got that backwards. ETA: Plus, accusing Ford herself of responsibility for making death threats – what the fucking fuck news are you reading… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4476 "2019-11-14T17:31:48Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Interesting. It’s common knowledge that quite a few Republican politicians can’t stand Trump but won’t break with him for fear they will lose their next election. I hadn’t considered that Trump voters will continue to support Trump on the basis that they can’t see a future of the party without Trump. “have a harder time winning the 2020 election” != “can’t see a future of the party without Trump.” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4477 "2019-11-14T17:32:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Probably not. Dr. Blasey Ford and her allies exposed Justice Kavanaugh’s family to death threats because they thought it might help their side in a political squabble. I don’t recall many Democrats saying that was “a pretty shitty thing to do”, so the complaint now rings hollow to me. Sorry. I missed the part where his nomination to the Supreme Court was supposed to be anonymous. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4478 "2019-11-14T17:32:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You’re seriously putting Kavanaugh in the shoes of being a whisteblower? Man, have you got that backwards. Nope, I’m putting him (and his family) in the shoes of people who were exposed to death threats because dems thought it might help their side in a political squabble. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4479 "2019-11-14T17:33:57Z")
Sickening, but still not surprising, unfortunately, to see **HurricaneDitka** denigrate a woman who did nothing more than publicly talk about her experiences as a young girl. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4480 "2019-11-14T17:34:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “have a harder time winning the 2020 election” != “can’t see a future of the party without Trump.” “better chance of winning the 2020 election” \> “electing a degenerate” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=223) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=225)