# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 249
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4961 "2019-11-17T21:37:35Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > I think at this point we can say that very few people are going to change their opinion on Trump. If that Biden-Trump debate happened, people would come away with two very different conclusions based on their beliefs prior to the debate. Some would see a liar and an idiot, some would see a masterful businessman who tells it like it is. The polls from the last series of debates tell a different story. Every time there was a debate between Clinton and Trump, the national polls swung from near 50/50 to something more like 80/20. And then, two weeks later, they start moving back towards 50/50. There’s another debate, the polls swing to 80/20, and two weeks later, they start going back the other direction. When people watch Trump, nearly everyone realizes that he’s stupid. And then either they forget or their friends, the media on the right, and/or their need to support the home team takes over and they force the information out of their heads. > **[2016 Election Forecast | FiveThirtyEight](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/)** > > Nate Silver's predictions and polling data for the 2016 presidential election between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump Everyone _knew_ that Trump was an idiot. They saw it with their own eyes and believed that it was true. When they saw it again, they realized that their first instinct had indeed been absolutely correct. And when they saw it AGAIN, they realized AGAIN, that their first read and second read were both correct and that Trump was an idiot. My dad watched the debates - I didn’t - and would meet me for breakfast the next day in a panic that the country might really vote for that idiot and he couldn’t believe that somehow someone so stupid had actually make it to the last leg. Two weeks later, he was telling me about how great a read The Art of the Deal was and defending Trump’s intelligence even though, at that time, I was still open to the idea that Trump was still playing it up just to rope in the stupidest quadrant of the country and the only reason I had to believe that Trump was stupid was based on my dad’s earlier testimony about what he saw in the debates. Ultimately, you’re dealing with the human condition. The Germans knew in their hearts and deeply understood that the Jews were evil and harmful for years and years, and knew that their government was killing them. And then one day, they stopped believing that and believed that they had been shameful and that it was only other people who had spotted the signs of what had happened. The human capability to make what they need to be true be the truth is incredible and horrifying. If anyone believes that Trump is smart, they should watch the debates. I’ve never seen them but, apparently, Trump was clearly a moron and probably you already saw that and knew that - and then you voted for him. And now you’re out lying to us, because the alternative is to admit to the shame of what you did and knew you were doing. (Note: “you” at the end is **Trump voters** , not **steatopygia**.) ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4962 "2019-11-17T21:42:42Z")
It’s true that Trump’s an ignorant jackass who will readily resort to shameless, venal, and dishonorable tactics, but his “success” mostly comes from a reptilian-brain facility for scamming. He scams so much that it’s an unthinking reflex–the way a lizard automatically sticks out its tongue to catch flies. For a scam to work it takes dupes. The dupes of this country–combined with the ethno-nationalists and knee-jerk party-line voters–were just enough to get him elected. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4963 "2019-11-17T21:48:45Z")
I’ll also note, for the record that Art of the Deal was not written by Trump, nor was his book about his political views. The two men who wrote those books, who spent enough time with Trump to be able to craft the works, have both come out saying that Trump is an idiot. And likewise, a real life Forest Gump would just be some guy who’s on the edge of needing to be under assistive care, for an inability to fully mentally mature and live as an adult. But, given an authorial treatment, Gump becomes a wandering sage of brilliance. That’s what we in the business call “fiction”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4964 "2019-11-17T23:03:17Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think there will be an effort to put Trump in jail, but I also suspect that his partisans will claim that it’s political retribution, which would then pave the way for a future republican to do the same. To be put in jail, one must be found guilty of some criminal action. It’s silly to act like we can’t punish a criminal because they are prominent politically. Politics shouldn’t factor in, crime is crime. If the fear political retribution from the other side, I’d remind you this isn’t China or Russia–the US hasn’t much of a reputation for jailing 100% innocent people for political reasons. So I’d hope that if the GOP tries to start jailing Dems for something, the courts would justly adjudicate. As they would with Trump–if he goes to jail it won’t be because of politics. His supporters might say otherwise, but it won’t be true. And if we start letting crimes go unpunished because of fear of what the wrong-headed/wrong-sided perpetrators’ rhetoric, where are we as a country? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4965 "2019-11-17T23:30:10Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > 1. He’s misplaced all his adderall and Sudafed. 😃 > > 2. He might hear REALLY bad news about overcooked steak and ketchup consumption. Well, the grill marks/burnt outside of a steak has been purportedly linked to cancer, and as someone who is currently dealing with colorectal cancer I really can not wish that on anybody [but a sudden case of baldness and a bad reaction to spray tan is fair game …] ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4966 "2019-11-18T00:19:31Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think there will be an effort to put Trump in jail, but I also suspect that his partisans will claim that it’s political retribution, which would then pave the way for a future republican to do the same. To be put in jail, one must be found guilty of some criminal action. It’s silly to act like we can’t punish a criminal because they are prominent politically. Politics shouldn’t factor in, crime is crime. If the fear political retribution from the other side, I’d remind you this isn’t China or Russia–the US hasn’t much of a reputation for jailing 100% innocent people for political reasons. So I’d hope that if the GOP tries to start jailing Dems for no reason, the courts would justly adjudicate. As they would with Trump–if he goes to jail it won’t be because of politics. His supporters might say otherwise, but it won’t be true. And if we start letting crimes go unpunished because of fear of partisan rhetoric, where are we as a country? They’ve won at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4967 "2019-11-18T03:47:14Z")
ETA: Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4968 "2019-11-18T13:00:26Z")
> 51% say Trump should be impeached AND removed. 70% (!!!) say that Trump’s actions re: Ukraine were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4969 "2019-11-18T13:11:09Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Yes I do. In fact, I think Trump would prefer to run against Biden over all the other Democrat contenders. Biden appears to be going senile, and Trump would crush him in debates. And if you type “creepy Uncle Joe” into youtube, you will find numerous videos which can be turned into campaign commercials to broadcast in October 2020. On top of that Biden is an old white male, which is used to disparage Republican candidates all the time. So in his great unmatched wisdom he decided to extort Ukraine to dig up or make up dirt on Biden so that the easiest candidate to beat would be denied the nomination? Is there an alternate universe where that makes sense? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4970 "2019-11-18T13:34:35Z")
12th dimensional chess, my droogies. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4971 "2019-11-18T15:12:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So in his great unmatched wisdom he decided to extort Ukraine to dig up or make up dirt on Biden so that the easiest candidate to beat would be denied the nomination? Is there an alternate universe where that makes sense? Exactly! It would not make sense for Trump to knock the easiest candidate to beat out before the Democrat primaries. Therefore, Trump’s mention of Biden in the call was not for his own political gain. It was part of his effort to fight corruption. ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4972 "2019-11-18T15:24:34Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Exactly! It would not make sense for Trump to knock the easiest candidate to beat out before the Democrat primaries. Therefore, Trump’s mention of Biden in the call was not for his own political gain. It was part of his effort to fight corruption. Right, because: [ol][li]The only corruption going on in Ukraine is the already-debunked conspiracy theory regarding Biden. Any other corruption within Ukraine is unimportant[/li][li]The most appropriate way for a president to contend with corruption in another country is to withhold funds that were already approved, and replace an ambassador with one loyal to the president, rather than, say, using his own intelligence services[/li][li]The lack of mention of corruption in the July 25 call was that, uh, he forgot?[/li][li]Similarly, the White House didn’t perform their own corruption review of Ukraine because they were, too busy, I guess?[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4973 "2019-11-18T15:36:36Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Exactly! It would not make sense for Trump to knock the easiest candidate to beat out before the Democrat primaries. Therefore, Trump’s mention of Biden in the call was not for his own political gain. It was part of his effort to fight corruption. I certainly am glad I went to the bathroom before reading this, else I would have peed all over the place laughing when I read it. Seriously, Dolt45 cares not a whit about Ukraine, he believes all the lies that Putin tells him about Ukraine, and he doesn’t give a flying fuck about corruption anywhere. People who carry the water for despots around the world generally aren’t those who lead fights against corruption. Looks like a fun week ahead, more open testimony, more ridiculous Republican posturing in order to please their audience of one. Most every day this month has been like Christmas morning with new wonderful surprises. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4974 "2019-11-18T15:40:51Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Exactly! It would not make sense for Trump to knock the easiest candidate to beat out before the Democrat primaries. Therefore, Trump’s mention of Biden in the call was not for his own political gain. It was part of his effort to fight corruption. Or he could just be incompetent. And how does the idea of Trump fighting corruption have any credence to begin with? It’s like hearing ‘Cattle farmers are against steak dinners’ or ‘Saudi Arabia fights for women’s rights’. It’s obviously nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4975 "2019-11-18T15:54:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Looks like a fun week ahead, more open testimony, more ridiculous Republican posturing in order to please their audience of one. [And Trump taking to Twitter to talk testifying.](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/18/trump-says-he-will-strongly-consider-testifying-in-impeachment-probe.html) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4976 "2019-11-18T16:00:59Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Exactly! It would not make sense for Trump to knock the easiest candidate to beat out before the Democrat primaries. Therefore, Trump’s mention of Biden in the call was not for his own political gain. It was part of his effort to fight corruption. The corruption bit is nonsense for several reasons but 2 pop up right away, remember that silly “defense” about no mentioning of ‘quid pro quo’ in the call? **There was actually no mention of fighting corruption in the call.** > **[Trump insists he just wants foreign countries to tackle "corruption." Here’s...](https://www.vox.com/2019/10/4/20899087/trump-corruption-investigation-ukraine-china-scandal)** > > It took one question from a reporter on Friday to destroy Trump’s new talking point. > [@](#): > > But the memo about the fateful July phone call between Trump and the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky that the White House released last week also indicates Trump’s new talking point is nonsense. > > During that call, the word “corruption” was never uttered. Instead, Trump suggested military aid to the country was contingent on Zelensky doing him a “favor,” and he then brought up his desire to see investigations opened into the Bidens and the origins of the Mueller investigation. And then, expecting a corrupt fellow to fight corruption is to expect an arsonist to become a good firefighter. > **[Trump insists he just wants foreign countries to tackle "corruption." Here’s...](https://www.vox.com/2019/10/4/20899087/trump-corruption-investigation-ukraine-china-scandal)** > > It took one question from a reporter on Friday to destroy Trump’s new talking point. > [@](#): > > “I don’t care about Biden’s campaign, but I do care about corruption,” Trump told reporters outside the White House Friday. “I believe there was tremendous corruption with Biden … we are looking at corruption, we are not looking at politics.” > > Trump went as far as to insist “this is about corruption” or a close variant of that statement six times in less than 40 seconds. > > But all it took was one question from CNBC’s Eamon Javers to destroy his talking point. > > “Have you asked foreign leaders for any corruption investigations that don’t involve your political opponents?” Javers asked. > > The answer, it quickly became apparent, was no — even if Trump didn’t want to admit it. > > “You know, we would have to look, but I tell you — what I ask for, and what I always will ask for, is anything having to do with corruption with respect to our country,” Trump said, dissembling. “If a foreign country can help us with respect to corruption, and corruption probes — I don’t care if it’s Biden or anybody else.” > [@](#): > > As the scandal has escalated over the past week, Trump has rolled out a number of other defenses of his conduct, including that his 2016 win means he can do what he wants, Democrats are really to blame, and dismissing the whole scandal as a mere politically motivated “witch hunt.” > > But Trump’s insistence on Friday that he’s really just concerned about corruption is especially hard to buy. Trump is arguably the most personally corrupt president in the history of the United States — he broke decades of precedent by refusing to divest from his private businesses and as a result is being enriched by foreign governments while he’s in office — and as such the notion that he’s suddenly become a principled anti-corruption crusader is absurd on its face. “You know, we would have to look, but I tell you"… Trump speak equivalent to his promise to produce his tax returns, fighting corruption was not the reason for his Ukraine affairs. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4977 "2019-11-18T16:05:29Z")
Don’t forget, what was important to Trump wasn’t corruption, it was the Ukrainian president announcing PUBLICLY investigations into Biden and Burisma. They even suggested he do it on CNN (because, you know, if they announced the investigation on FOX it might look?..biased?) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4978 "2019-11-18T16:07:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1196404810020532224](https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1196404810020532224) > > 51% say Trump should be impeached AND removed. > > 70% (!!!) say that Trump’s actions re: Ukraine were wrong. 6% also say Trump should be impeached but not removed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4979 "2019-11-18T16:13:28Z")
There must be _some_ number who actually believe that a thorough impeachment investigation will totally exonerate. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/4980 "2019-11-18T16:29:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There must be _some_ number who actually believe that a thorough impeachment investigation will totally exonerate. There will always be that ~25% who believe he never does anything wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=248) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=250)