# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/481 "2019-09-26T02:32:08Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > I love how the left loses an election based solely on bad policy, unlikable candidates, and hardcore leftism, learns nothing from that, quadruples their leftward slide, and goes on to openly attack a sitting president and his voters by-proxy and expects to win the next election - all the while screaming about how “divisive” this president is. > > Really is a sight to behold. They had it by the balls with Obama in term one and have steadily declined ever since - all the while learning nothing. Despite all that they have about a…I give it…60% chance to win in the general election Now if Trump had just…well…become a sane adult…the Dems would have a 10% chance. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/482 "2019-09-26T03:40:08Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Despite all that they have about a…I give it…60% chance to win in the general election > > Now if Trump had just…well…become a sane adult…the Dems would have a 10% chance. Maybe. I’m still 50/50. As we have seen in 2016 it’s almost impossible to gauge. Everyone reads and believes their preferred media, polling is all over the place. The counter is true also: if the left had just become sane adults they wouldn’t have lost 2016, and in the time being since then, their national gaslighting helps no one other than their hardcore base. Elections are all about fence sitters and independents. Hard to see how that demo will fall. It’s a hard sell to the electorate though. A vote for the left is a vote for increased taxes and socialism, and that’s generally received as quite unpopular. A vote for the right is lower taxes, employment, economy, and taking care of citizens first and foremost. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/483 "2019-09-26T04:06:39Z")
I think it’ll be fine. After all, a vote for the left is a vote for health care, clean air and water, raising taxes on the 1%, good jobs for the working class, a return to the rule of law, and democracy with social benefits such as Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and improved schools, and that’s generally received as quite popular. A vote for the right is a vote for more corporate welfare, McJobs without benefits, an administration that is literally attempting to invalidate the pre-existing conditions safeguards the ACA brought, a foolish and expensive trade war with just about every other country on the planet, and taking care of nobody but themselves at all. (FTFY.) ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/484 "2019-09-26T04:10:05Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Maybe. I’m still 50/50. As we have seen in 2016 it’s almost impossible to gauge. Everyone reads and believes their preferred media, polling is all over the place. > > The counter is true also: if the left had just become sane adults they wouldn’t have lost 2016, and in the time being since then, their national gaslighting helps no one other than their hardcore base. Elections are all about fence sitters and independents. Hard to see how that demo will fall. > > It’s a hard sell to the electorate though. A vote for the left is a vote for increased taxes and socialism, and that’s generally received as quite unpopular. A vote for the right is lower taxes, employment, economy, and taking care of citizens first and foremost. It’s your birthday, somebody gives you a calf skin wallet… The left’s national gaslighting? What? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/485 "2019-09-26T04:10:59Z")
Oh. [.@murraywaas on Giuliani: “The Ukrainian initiative appears to have begun in service of formulating a rationale by which the president could pardon Manafort, as part of an effort to undermine the special counsel’s investigation.”](https://twitter.com/joshrogin/status/1177049958907879425) > **[Trump, Giuliani, and Manafort: The Ukraine Scheme | Murray Waas](https://t.co/LrBOcAxgo9)** > > The allegations that President Trump improperly pressured the head of state of a foreign government to improperly investigate the son of his potential Democratic opponent in the 2020 presidential race, and even withheld $250 million in military aid... ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/486 "2019-09-26T04:33:55Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Also it should be pointed out that pretty much every request that any president makes to a foreign leader implicitly has quid pro quo attached to it. This is how Diplomacy works. Other countries do what the president requests because they think that doing so will improve their relationship with the United States, and failing to do so would hurt this relationship. It doesn’t matter if the specific advantages of acceding to the request, or the consequences of failing to accede are explicitly spelled out. The pressure is there. And of course the President is supposed to be making requests of other countries for the good of the United States, not to smear a political rival and help his own personal election campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/487 "2019-09-26T04:38:00Z")
… and let’s not forget the other Ukrainian connection. Oleg Deripaska, Putin ally and former good buddy of Paul Manafort, whose company, Rusal, [had sanctions lifted in January](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-27/u-s-treasury-lifts-sanctions-on-three-deripaska-companies). Deripaska then invested 200 million to [build a Rusal aluminum plant in… western Kentucky](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=2ahUKEwjyjNnQ1O3kAhUXrp4KHVotDxYQFjACegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2019%2F05%2F16%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Frusal-investment-kentucky.html&usg=AOvVaw1mkWJgTAovbmRtZtvnvhNV). Moscow Mitch, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/488 "2019-09-26T04:39:20Z")
[The whistleblower complaint has been declassified](https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/politics/whistleblower-complaint/index.html), and may be released as early as tomorrow (Thursday), three sources have told CNN. > [@CNN](#): > > The whistleblower’s complaint about President Donald Trump’s communications with Ukraine has been declassified and could be released as soon as Thursday morning, three sources told CNN late Wednesday night. > > The first two sources spoke to CNN after Rep. Chris Stewart, a Republican member of the House Intelligence Committee, said on Twitter late Wednesday night that the complaint had been declassified. > “Yes, it has been declassified with minimal redactions but not yet released to the public,” a separate source familiar with the process told CNN. “We expect that to happen in the morning.” > The complaint was hand delivered Wednesday afternoon to Capitol Hill, giving lawmakers their first chance to see the classified account that spurred Democrats to launch a formal impeachment inquiry. Democrats reading the document, which is available to lawmakers in two secure facilities, one in each chamber, say it backs up their commitment to their investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/489 "2019-09-26T05:08:48Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Maybe. I’m still 50/50. As we have seen in 2016 it’s almost impossible to gauge. Everyone reads and believes their preferred media, polling is all over the place. > > The counter is true also: if the left had just become sane adults they wouldn’t have lost 2016, and in the time being since then, their national gaslighting helps no one other than their hardcore base. Elections are all about fence sitters and independents. Hard to see how that demo will fall. > > It’s a hard sell to the electorate though. A vote for the left is a vote for increased taxes and socialism, and that’s generally received as quite unpopular. A vote for the right is lower taxes, employment, economy, and taking care of citizens first and foremost. Oh god yes on 2016. Dont hire Debbie Wasserman. Dont say ‘deplorables’. Campaign in Wisconsin. Talk about for want of a nail. I think if the fence sitters/independents/burn it down see if i give a shit voters go for the Dems in 2020…it will be with the hope they act more traditionally left rather than ACTUALLY ARRESTING FOSSIL FUEL CEOS. Or shutting down all the nuclear plants or whatever other insane promise is being made these days. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/490 "2019-09-26T05:09:58Z")
According to the article > [@](#): > > California Democrat Rep. Eric Swalwell said the whistleblower “invokes other witnesses to the disturbing conduct” in the complaint, and lays out “a lot of other documents.” > Swalwell, a member of the House Judiciary and Intelligence committees, told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer that acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire is blocking lawmakers from seeing the full report, but said he was able to read the whistleblower’s complaint. “A lot of other documents” - how long will it take to get those corroborating documents? How long can Maquire continue to block the “full report” - and what else might be included in that report other than the original complaint? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/491 "2019-09-26T05:15:14Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > It’s a hard sell to the electorate though. A vote for the left is a vote for increased taxes and socialism, and that’s generally received as quite unpopular. A vote for the right is lower taxes, employment, economy, and **taking care of citizens first and foremost.** Bolding mine. Wait, what? “Taking care of citizens” is what you’d call socialism. Or is this some crazy doublespeak for “treating non-Americans/non-Citizens like shit so that American citizens are treated better by comparison”? The funny thing is you’re wrong - almost every leftist policy, in isolation, is viewed very favorably by a strong majority, but once you label it as part of a liberal or progressive or “socialist” movement, suddenly it’s unpopular. Sort of like how the ACA is popular, but “Obamacare” is not. Or if you break the ACA down into what it actually does, every provision is popular, but the whole of it isn’t. People are stupid, tribal, and trained to hate things that they actually approve of by labelling and messaging. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/492 "2019-09-26T05:25:55Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > [The whistleblower complaint has been declassified](https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/politics/whistleblower-complaint/index.html), and may be released as early as tomorrow (Thursday), three sources have told CNN. I think we’ll see why Trump’s people released the summary (non-transcript) so fast. They are desperately trying to get ahead of the story, to try to put their own spin on it. Today was “no quid pro quo”. I wonder what tomorrow’s talking point will be? I guess we’ll just have to wait until the Whitehouse sends it to the Democrats in congress by mistake again. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/493 "2019-09-26T05:27:30Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > According to the article > > “A lot of other documents” - how long will it take to get those corroborating documents? > How long can Maquire continue to block the “full report” - and what else might be included in that report other than the original complaint? How long will it take? As long as it takes to spin the narrative. Maybe they’ll get Barr to pen another fictional account again. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/494 "2019-09-26T05:29:30Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > The Ukraine folks probably just are not willing (or able) to wait so they went along with it. It’s FY2019 money so they could also have been reasonably concerned that they were running out of time to receive the promised aid. The fiscal year for the US ends this month. ISTR a bill to allow the money to be spent on our side after 01 Oct. Try searching the recent news for that detail about military aid to Ukraine this week. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/495 "2019-09-26T05:46:42Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Oh. > > [.@murraywaas on Giuliani: “The Ukrainian initiative appears to have begun in service of formulating a rationale by which the president could pardon Manafort, as part of an effort to undermine the special counsel’s investigation.”](https://twitter.com/joshrogin/status/1177049958907879425) > > [https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/09/25/trump-giuliani-and-manafort-the-ukraine-scheme/](https://t.co/LrBOcAxgo9) From the NYR piece in the 2nd link: > [@](#): > > A person who participated in the joint defense agreement between President Trump and others under investigation by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, including Manafort, allowed [the reporter] to review extensive handwritten notes that memorialized conversations relating to Manafort and Ukraine between Manafort’s and Trump’s legal teams, including Trump’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani. Maybe should’ve not hung Michael Cohen out to dry. Oh, well; not every deal can be the best ever. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/496 "2019-09-26T06:10:34Z")
It gets dangerous now. Until removed, he can launch. What will he do to prevent disastrous political and financial disclosures? Will Tehran, Pyongyang, San Francisco glow under firey mushrooms to preserve his power and existence? Are we nearing End Game? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/497 "2019-09-26T06:41:16Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > It gets dangerous now. Until removed, he can launch. What will he do to prevent disastrous political and financial disclosures? Will Tehran, Pyongyang, San Francisco glow under firey mushrooms to preserve his power and existence? Are we nearing End Game? This is (part of) the reason that I stick around: the patently absurd theories that get bandied about here. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/498 "2019-09-26T07:00:30Z")
I believe I see the GOP beginning a fighting retreat. Currently, the Party Line is a bit less chirpy than it normally is when Trump breaks the law or otherwise shits on the Presidency. To wit: **“Trump did nothing that rises to the level of impeachment.”** from: [here](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-25/trump-tried-to-talk-his-way-out-of-impeachment-it-didn-t-work) > [@](#): > > Republicans who have rallied to Trump’s defense in the past now face a choice of how closely they can stick with him this time around. As the party began to shape its rebuttal – that Trump did nothing that rises to the level of impeachment – three GOP senators stepped forward to express their misgivings about his actions. HEY KIDS! Can you find the hidden message in the bolded Talking Point above the quote? If you need a little help, ask your parents! ¡pǝɥɔɐǝdɯı ǝq pןnoɥs ǝɥ ʇɐɥʇ ןɐƃǝןןı puɐ 'ƃuoɹʍ 'pɐq os ʇou s,ʇı ʇnq ןɐƃǝןןı ʎɹǝʌ puɐ 'ƃuoɹʍ ʎɹǝʌ 'pɐq ʎɹǝʌ ƃuıɥʇǝɯos pıp dɯnɹ⊥ ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/499 "2019-09-26T07:06:36Z")
[Too late for edit] Also, the Dems will take the Senate in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/500 "2019-09-26T07:18:43Z")
They are in a real bind. 25% of the country loves Trump, and most of the rest does not, including a lot of people who are perfectly happy with normal Republicans. They are primaried if they go one way, and (other than those in deep red non-Utah states), they are vulnerable to losing reelection if they go the other way. Fun! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=26)