# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 260
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5181 "2019-11-20T15:52:17Z")
> [@Fugazi](#): > > We are so fucked. We have criminals deciding what is legal and what isn’t. Yes. Personally, I’m deeply frightened at how far down the track we’ve gotten to a Putin-style “government.” William Barr is the fulcrum point enabling much of this criminality. Barr was quite the coup for Trump Republicans, the gift that keeps on giving. I’ve said for years that Trump doesn’t just admire Putin, he wants to _be_ Putin. Would love to have been wrong about that, but sadly, I think we’re seeing the fever dream being borne out in real time. > [@Borborygmi](#): > > **Aspenglow** , thanks for this and your hundreds of other thoughtful and informative posts throughout the Special Counsel investigation and now through the impeachment inquiry. I hardly ever (never?) post in these threads but I am a huge fan. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Wanted to second this, before the Breaking News takes over. I am a huge fan, too! Not only do you understand what’s going on, you explain it clearly and without rancor even in reply to rancorous posts. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Wanted to third. Aspenglow is my favorite. > [@JohnT](#): > > Quadded. My goodness and fuck me, thank you all. I am deeply touched. Funny you all posted when you did. As I was writing my response to **MulderMuffin** last night, I was thinking how tired everyone must be of my relentless posts in these threads and perhaps I should lay off. You may regret having offered your collective encouragement. 😉 Thanks again to everyone. 🙂 * * * Sondland comes off as the fatuous, clueless dupe he is. Still, he is a bus-thrower extraordinaire and may be the thing that entices Bolton out of his lair to refute his besmirched reputation. What a circular firing squad that would be! Again, there’s one important name missing from Sondland’s roll call of misfit toys: Bill Barr, who is in all this up to his wattles. That dreadful excuse for an Attorney General must go down. Hard. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5182 "2019-11-20T16:01:27Z")
Regarding Trump as a corruption fighter, it’s interesting that Sondland confirmed that Ukraine didn’t actually have to investigate Biden, they just had to make an announcement that they were. Trump didn’t need an actual investigation that would go nowhere, he wanted a sound bite that the Bidens were “under investigation.” ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5183 "2019-11-20T16:08:05Z")
Oh my word! The look on Nunes’s face when they broke for a five minute recess! He is pissed! Sondland’s game plan so far is to say he doesn’t remember saying that (various statements), but he has no reason to dispute others’ memories and testimonies. Seriously, dude, grow a pair and just admit it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5184 "2019-11-20T16:15:06Z")
He _has_ a pair, he just wants to keep them. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5185 "2019-11-20T16:21:23Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I would still prefer to see the House establish, as a fact, that no domestic investigations were underway concerning Biden/Burisma or the Crowdstrike thing. > > ~Max And then, of course, we’ll need to see the House establish, s a fact, that no domestic investigations are underway about the collusion between Hillary and Soros to run a child kidnapping ring in the basement of a pizza parlor. You are aware of how silly your statement is, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5186 "2019-11-20T16:24:11Z")
So it appears that Sondland is not volunteering to fall on a sword for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5187 "2019-11-20T16:27:01Z")
Here we go again. Nunes is starting off, not with questions about what Sondland knew or said or did, but with conspiracy theories about Ukrainian interference in 2016. Don’t ask about substance. It’s detrimental to your case. Throw around conspiracy theories, instead. That’ll do it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5188 "2019-11-20T16:27:25Z")
Foxnews seems to be settling in on a “Trump did not know about it” explanation now. AKA the “throwing Rudy under the bus” defense. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5189 "2019-11-20T16:28:59Z")
Nunes basic defense is: “Trump had a really good reason to extort Zelensky!” Give me a fucking break! ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5190 "2019-11-20T16:30:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You are aware of how silly your statement is, yes? It is trying to set the goalposts at an impossible to get to place. It is a disingenuous argument, made only with the belief that it cannot be satisfied and therefore will be the end of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5191 "2019-11-20T16:31:49Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Can’t prove a negative. Sorry, I mean evidence of absence. It’s my preference that this is at least asked and answered before impeachment but the burden ultimately lies on the administration. Specifically I would want to see Republicans asking whether there was a proper investigation before the call. It’s their party in the White House. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5192 "2019-11-20T16:34:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Can’t wait to hear Nunes… I have a low tolerance for idiocy and bald-faced lies. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5193 "2019-11-20T16:34:56Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > b) Even if it was “inappropriate,” it doesn’t rise to the level of an impeachable offense. Concerning this second tactic, I suspect when the House ultimately drafts the articles of impeachment, it will include a bribery charge. Bribery is expressly named in the Constitution as an impeachable offense. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5194 "2019-11-20T16:36:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And then, of course, we’ll need to see the House establish, s a fact, that no domestic investigations are underway about the collusion between Hillary and Soros to run a child kidnapping ring in the basement of a pizza parlor. > > You are aware of how silly your statement is, yes? If it were the federal government that barged into that parlor, I think I would agree. But it isn’t, so the pizzagate conspiracy isn’t even remotely relevant, and that’s how I differentiate between my request and yours. The Trump administration during the trial phase might raise the defense that there was a legitimate reason for everything. In the spirit of anticipating that defense, I would prefer that the House as prosecutors prepare for that as best they can. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5195 "2019-11-20T16:39:36Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Sorry, I mean evidence of absence. It’s my preference that this is at least asked and answered before impeachment but the burden ultimately lies on the administration. > > Specifically I would want to see Republicans asking whether there was a proper investigation before the call. It’s their party in the White House. > > ~Max Before 50 other people say it, don’t you think it’s safe to assume that no investigation exists? They’ve had plenty of opportunity to bring it up… unless you think it’s never occurred to anyone to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5196 "2019-11-20T16:40:54Z")
[Ken Starr](https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1197188642567004161): “There is now proof that the President (Trump) committed the crime of bribery…This has been one of those bombshell days.” ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5197 "2019-11-20T16:45:22Z")
**Max** - Why do you think they haven’t raised that question yet? They are literally throwing everything against the wall including batshit insane and already debunked conspiracy theories, but they haven’t asked the one important question you think they need to? Do you think it’s because they are dumb? Or maybe because they know damn well there was no legitimate investigation? What is the most logical reason you can think of that they have not asked this yet? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5198 "2019-11-20T16:49:12Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Foxnews seems to be settling in on a “Trump did not know about it” explanation now. AKA the “throwing Rudy under the bus” defense. How do they think that’s going to work, exactly? I mean, is there anyone else in the entire government who has the authority to withhold Congressionally-approved, tax-payer-funded aid to another nation other than a president? I’ve yet to hear any explanation for withholding the aid up to the point of the whistleblower’s complaint, when it was suddenly released. (I don’t expect you to defend this on behalf of Fox “News,” obviously. Just pointing out a glaring obstacle for Fox. Not that their viewers much care about ginormous inconsistencies.) > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Ken Starr](https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1197188642567004161): “There is now proof that the President (Trump) committed the crime of bribery…This has been one of those bombshell days.” It probably only matters how Hannity and Ingraham spin it tonight. Starr will have become one of those “Never Trumpers” by then. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5199 "2019-11-20T16:58:11Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Ken Starr](https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1197188642567004161): “There is now proof that the President (Trump) committed the crime of bribery…This has been one of those bombshell days.” The tweet is misleading; Starr was predicting what Adam Schiff will say. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5200 "2019-11-20T17:04:07Z")
This has been by far the most productive day of hearings for Team Schiff, with Sondland giving a John Dean-ish performance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=259) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=261)