# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 267
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5321 "2019-11-21T16:18:05Z")
Make and manipulate into are different things. Ya think that the fiction of Ukraine interference and the stories about Hunter couldn’t be dusted for Russian fingerprints in a pushing it along fashion? That mobile phone conversation was not on a secure line and who knows how many others of the irregular channel were not saying what? The Russians very like do know and have known more about our operational Ukraine policy and how to actually impact it than anyone in the state department does or did. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5322 "2019-11-21T16:37:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Make and manipulate into are different things. Ya think that the fiction of Ukraine interference and the stories about Hunter couldn’t be dusted for Russian fingerprints in a pushing it along fashion? > > That mobile phone conversation was not on a secure line and who knows how many others of the irregular channel were not saying what? The Russians very like do know and have known more about our operational Ukraine policy and how to actually impact it than anyone in the state department does or did. It just seems like Dr. Hill is trying to deflect blame away from Trump in those quotes. “Don’t you see? This [impeachment hearing] is exactly what they want! You’re playing into their hands!” As though we should all ignore what Trump did for the good of the country. But I’m not listening to the testimony today so I’m not sure if that’s her tone or not. If Russia spun out some conspiracy theories and Trump bought into them, that becomes our problem whether we like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5323 "2019-11-21T16:49:52Z")
This is old but continues to be relevant so for those who haven’t seen it: [it’s an Art Buchwald column from 1973](https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/syndicated-columnists/article187662578.html)setting out standard responses from Nixon supporters arguing why Nixon shouldn’t be investigated/impeached. Several of them sounds disturbingly familiar - for example, just substitute “Benghazi” for “Chappaquiddick”. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5324 "2019-11-21T17:03:48Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > This is old but continues to be relevant so for those who haven’t seen it: [it’s an Art Buchwald column from 1973](https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/syndicated-columnists/article187662578.html)setting out standard responses from Nixon supporters arguing why Nixon shouldn’t be investigated/impeached. Several of them sounds disturbingly familiar - for example, just substitute “Benghazi” for “Chappaquiddick”. Wow. 1973? How some things have not changed. #8 sounds like something our esteemed poster\*\* Max S\*\* might go with: > [@](#): > > 1. Wait till all the facts come out. #4 and #6 are pretty much the go-to strategy of Trump: > [@](#): > > 1. The press is blowing the whole thing up. > 2. The Democrats are sore because they lost the election. This one is just a riff on the "this is boring, everyone is bored, ho hum defense: > [@](#): > > 1. I’m sick and tired of hearing about Watergate and so is everyone else. The classic Tu Quoque: > [@](#): > > 1. If the Democrats had the money they would have done the same thing. One thing has changed though. The Republicans in Senate today have no honor, no shame, no ethics, and some of them may well be in the pocket of the Russians. With Nixon, it took some ethical leaders of the Republican Party to stand up to Nixon and tell him to resign. We have no such ethical and moral people in this party today. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5325 "2019-11-21T17:08:32Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > a) Being told what to think is just as bad as being lied to. > > b) Omission is a form of lying and one that occurs largely as a matter of what that individual finds bolsters their argument rather than as an intent to lie. > > c) You can find articles of interviews between the media and Trump’s DHS before the “child separations” issue was released where they are calmly discussing the implications of a mandatory criminal prosecution on illegal immigrants and how that would require that you separate the families since children aren’t allowed in prison. > > And then, there was an article that stated that the DHS had lost track of which kids belonged to which parents and, upon encountering that article, the readers, who had not picked up on the earlier news about the minutiae of what all implications there were of the mandatory prosecution policy, went, “What the hell?? They’re separating children from their parents!!!?” > > And then the media looked at the view counts on those articles and said, “Yes. Yes, they are. Separating children from their parents, that’s their policy. We didn’t know before, but gee do we now!” > > Whereas, say, for example we had that time when the New York Times spent two years and massive labor looking through Trump’s finances and they largely determined that the way Trump was able to buy Mar-A-Lago and his other holdings is, in essence, by liquidating the much larger fortune that his dad had built, after his death. > > That article was too long, too boring, and buried the most important details midway through the article. Probably not intentionally - just journalists who were overly optimistic about the average reader’s ability to read a long article - but, in general, that article was a flop and most people probably never read to the part where it actually said what it was trying to say. > > As a side effect of that, your average person - even those on the left - is still mystified about how it can be that Trump can be such a “success” and how that must mean that he’s smart and canny. But, no, “dying wealthy relative” is not a smart business strategy. That’s called “luck”. > > Importantly, though, that article didn’t get nearly as high a view count as, say, child separations. > > So did others re-report the NYT, helping to boost the main message? Did they allude to the key details later, to ensure that everyone knew? Did they hammer on the topic thousands and thousands of times so that you couldn’t help but know the truth? > > Nope. Because they are a business and because journalists are people, too. The business is not interested in articles that don’t sell and the journalists have a limited amount of time and don’t know everything, they just know what the business tells them they should write about. If the business tells them to write about the “child separation policy” because it’s getting maybe clicks, then the journalist jumps in, does two seconds of research to get what they need to support the story, and they crank out an article. They don’t really think about it or go in-depth. And they plaster over earlier articles on the subject, which were more nuanced, so that you can’t find them. > > But they aren’t asked to write about the fortune of Fred Trump, which appears to have been about 10X the size of Donald’s. And so, no one knows that. > > Journalism is a business. The business goes with the clicks and the clicks are not based on rationality. They’re based on emotions, catchy headlines, ignorance, and impatience. > > If the sources you read are keeping you entertained and happy… Well, they have the numbers they need to know what makes you entertained and happy. The media on the left and right are vastly different and that is, likely, less driven by management so much as its pushed a particular direction in reward for a particular presentation of the material that appeals to that reader base. Nah, fuck that. You learn what sources you can trust - and verify that you can trust them. Believing sources doesn’t make you brainwashed if the sources are verifiably trustworthy. It makes you educated. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5326 "2019-11-21T17:13:57Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > It just seems like Dr. Hill is trying to deflect blame away from Trump in those quotes. "Don’t you see? This [impeachment hearing] is exactly what they want! **You’re playing into their hands!"** As though we should all ignore what Trump did for the good of the country. > > But I’m not listening to the testimony today so I’m not sure if that’s her tone or not. If Russia spun out some conspiracy theories and Trump bought into them, that becomes our problem whether we like it or not. My bold. I did listen to part of her testimony and she’s not saying, “YOU [Congress] are playing into their hands [with this hearing],” IMHO she’s saying, “Trump is such a fucking idiot that HE played right into Putin’s hands and the resulting chaos and divisiveness is exactly what Putin wanted.” IOW Putin played the soon-to-be-ex like a fucking Stradivarius. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5327 "2019-11-21T17:17:13Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > My bold. > > I did listen to part of her testimony and she’s not saying, “YOU [Congress] are playing into their hands [with this hearing],” IMHO she’s saying, “Trump is such a fucking idiot that HE played right into Putin’s hands and the resulting chaos and divisiveness is exactly what Putin wanted.” IOW Putin played the soon-to-be-ex like a fucking Stradivarius. Well that makes me feel better, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5328 "2019-11-21T17:48:26Z")
Somewhat related news from Israel: AP reports, bolding mine: > [@](#): > > Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will be indicted on bribery, fraud and breach of trust charges Thursday, the Israeli Justice Ministry confirmed, according to the Associated Press. > > Allegations against Netanyahu include suspicions that he accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars of champagne and cigars from billionaire friends, offered to trade favors with a newspaper publisher, and used his influence to help a wealthy telecom magnate in exchange for favorable coverage on a popular news site. > > **Netanyahu has called the allegations part of a witch hunt, lashing out against the media, police, prosecutors and the justice system**. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5329 "2019-11-21T17:49:02Z")
“In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.” - Fiona Hill ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5330 "2019-11-21T17:59:50Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > “In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.” - Fiona Hill Yeah, the horse is not just out of the barn on that one already, he’s over the fence, down the road, and drinking beer at the pub. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5331 "2019-11-21T18:03:09Z")
I’m not able to follow the testimony today but I’m curious about how Nunes, Jordan and the other GOP Trumpists have reacted to Dr. Hill’s testimony. Have they questioned her yet or is that coming later? I’m curious what the reaction was to her calling BS on all the conspiracy theories. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5332 "2019-11-21T18:23:22Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I’m not able to follow the testimony today but I’m curious about how Nunes, Jordan and the other GOP Trumpists have reacted to Dr. Hill’s testimony. Have they questioned her yet or is that coming later? I’m curious what the reaction was to her calling BS on all the conspiracy theories. I’m a few minutes behind, I paused it to take care of some things. Nunes didn’t make his usual snarky comments about fake congratulating them or commiserating with them about being given a starting role in the farce after their secret auditions when questioning began. (He may have during his opening remarks. I wasn’t paying close attention because he is a tool.) Thank gods. That was old the first time he did it. He did spend his time asking about the freaking Steele dossier. About whether they knew Chalupa. Nothing at all about the matter at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5333 "2019-11-21T18:31:52Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > “In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.” - Fiona Hill Aha! That’s where we’ve got you! Devin Nunes keeps saying ‘Russia Hoax’, therefore it _is_ a hoax!’ ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5334 "2019-11-21T18:31:52Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > How did Russia manage to make Trump hold up security assistance in exchange for a sham investigation against Joe Biden? Amazing, the powers they hold… > > Is that what she’s saying here? > [@steronz](#): > > Well that makes me feel better, I guess. I won’t be able to watch this week, I’m living without TV and internet ( except on my phone) this week. But I read every word of her closed door testimony and that’s EXACTLY what she is saying. And EXACTLY what I’ve been saying. This was engineered by Russia. The Ukrainian conspiracy theory and the documents Rudy had been waving around are Russian disinformation. Fruman and Parnas are Russian agents. The Russia / Ukraine war is serious high stakes endeavor and the energy security of Western Europe is at stake. Getting the US to waiver in their support of Ukraine is a key foreign policy goal of Russia. People don’t think of Russia as a petrostate, but it is the worlds second largest oil exporter (behind Saudi Arabia) and the largest natural gas exporter. It’s about so much more than that phone call. One of the goals of the Trump/Giuliani scheme was to replace the board of directors at Naftogaz, another Ukrainian gas company. This change was being pushed by Rudy Giuliani and the two Russian agents. This is where the story is, I think. Because US foreign policy actively encourages Ukrainian companies to put Westerners on their boards, it’s part of the effort to clean up corruption by strengthening corporate governance. If Trump and Giuliani were looking to subvert that by plotting to put “friends of Putin” of the board, that might be a high crime. Not bribery though. The other one. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5335 "2019-11-21T18:52:26Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > How did Russia manage to make Trump hold up security assistance in exchange for a sham investigation against Joe Biden? Amazing, the powers they hold… > > Is that what she’s saying here? It’s been clear from the beginning that Individual 1 works for Putin. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5336 "2019-11-21T18:58:19Z")
So Dr. Hill just told Castor that the Republican narrative that she said that Colonel Vindman was unfit, is not true. But I didn’t like that she testified as fact things that she doesn’t know: “Doctor Hill, do you know who financed the Steele Dossier?” “Well, I didn’t know till your staffers told me.” “And who is that?” “The DNC”. So no mention of Ted Cruz’s campaign. And then Nunes said, “We’ve established that the Democrats financed the Steele Dossier …” ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5337 "2019-11-21T18:58:52Z")
Good lord, does Gym Jordan always talk with his caps lock on? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5338 "2019-11-21T19:02:23Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Good lord, does Gym Jordan always talk with his caps lock on? As I mentioned above, he needs to switch to decaf. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5339 "2019-11-21T19:05:30Z")
I’m at work and had my attention on some data. Was that Jim Jordan that Schiff kept telling to shut his pie hole? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5340 "2019-11-21T19:07:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’m at work and had my attention on some data. Was that Jim Jordan that Schiff kept telling to shut his pie hole? Yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=266) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=268)