# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 272
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5421 "2019-11-22T15:58:02Z")
John Bolton is [back on Twitter](https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton) after a couple of months. I’m sure people will be keeping a keen eye on what he has to say. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5422 "2019-11-22T16:05:34Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The guy has to win. He goes to jail if he doesn’t. He has to win and win at all costs. He’s been doing a piss poor job of it lately. > [@](#): > > Tuesday’s voting was only a weenie prologue, although naturally we intend to read as much into the results as is humanly possible. Virginia went a serious shade of blue; the Pennsylvania suburbs started looking distinctly Never Trump and the Republican governor of Kentucky seems to be out of a job. > > That last was certainly embarrassing for Trump, who held a big rally in Lexington on the day before the election, during which he freely admitted that if Gov. Matt Bevin lost, the evil media would say “Trump suffered the greatest defeat in the history of the world.” > > The margin of victory for Democrat Andy Beshear is small, and Bevin is clearly going to keep battling until the vote counters faint. So it’s very likely that by the time Kentucky works this out, the rest of the country will have forgotten all about it. > > Except for the part where Trump encouraged his fans to think the gubernatorial election was all a referendum on him. ([NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/opinion/kentucky-governor-race.html)) It’s as if without the Russians directly interfering, the votes don’t go his way. His desperation doesn’t matter - the votes do. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5423 "2019-11-22T16:06:28Z")
So, do the House Dems vote to impeach? Pros: 1. Media outlets get viewers = money 2. Drown out the Horowitz report news (dropping Dec 9) 3. Rally base Cons: 4. Annoy swing voters 5. Rally Trump’s base 6. Hunter Biden, Adam Schiff, and whistleblower can be called to testify in Senate trial 7. Dem senators running for President TECHNICALLY are prohibited from campaigning during Senate trial Dem house members can only cite 3 in the pros, and can cite 1, 2, and 4 in the cons. So do they want to throw those implicated in the Horowitz report under the bus, and ignore 2 in the pros? If not, they will vote to impeach. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5424 "2019-11-22T16:13:39Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > So, do the House Dems vote to impeach? > Pros: > > 1. Media outlets get viewers = money > 2. Drown out the Horowitz report news (dropping Dec 9) > 3. Rally base > Cons: > 4. Annoy swing voters > 5. Rally Trump’s base > 6. Hunter Biden, Adam Schiff, and whistleblower can be called to testify in Senate trial > 7. Dem senators running for President TECHNICALLY are prohibited from campaigning during Senate trial > Dem house members can only cite 3 in the pros, and can cite 1, 2, and 4 in the cons. So do they want to throw those implicated in the Horowitz report under the bus, and ignore 2 in the pros? If not, they will vote to impeach. Since you haven’t mentioned it on either side in your list, I take it that the U.S. Constitution is of no importance to you. That figures. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5425 "2019-11-22T16:18:44Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > So, do the House Dems vote to impeach? > Pros: > > 1. Media outlets get viewers = money > 2. Drown out the Horowitz report news (dropping Dec 9) > 3. Rally base > Cons: > 4. Annoy swing voters > 5. Rally Trump’s base > 6. Hunter Biden, Adam Schiff, and whistleblower can be called to testify in Senate trial > 7. Dem senators running for President TECHNICALLY are prohibited from campaigning during Senate trial > Dem house members can only cite 3 in the pros, and can cite 1, 2, and 4 in the cons. So do they want to throw those implicated in the Horowitz report under the bus, and ignore 2 in the pros? If not, they will vote to impeach. I don’t see anything about right or wrong, or the health and future of our democracy in here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5426 "2019-11-22T16:19:46Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > If Senate acquittal is a foregone conclusion, then might as well spend the court time to get all of these guys to testify. I don’t think it necessarily is a foregone conclusion. The perfect transcript was released at the encouragement of the Kentucky Turtle Demon, and while McConnell is evil, he isn’t stupid. He had to know the release of the contents of Trump’s call with Zelensky wouldn’t do Trump any favours. I think McConnell has decided that Pence will do and Trump’s more trouble than he’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5427 "2019-11-22T16:22:51Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I don’t see anything about right or wrong, or the health and future of our democracy in here. Considerations of ethics and morality are entirely absent from modern Republican thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5428 "2019-11-22T16:34:51Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I don’t see anything about right or wrong, or the health and future of our democracy in here. I consider all news sources. Not having any “news blinders” on, I have not fallen into the hypnotic trance the mainstream media has put approximately half the country under to equate anything going against their narrative as a “danger to our democracy”. I hope this video will snap you out of your trance: [https://mobile.twitter.com/TS\_SCI\_MAJIC12/status/1182008427930931200](https://mobile.twitter.com/TS_SCI_MAJIC12/status/1182008427930931200) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5429 "2019-11-22T16:38:12Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Let me play Devil’s Advocate for a moment. Tell me where I’m wrong. > > Asking for a favor before releasing foreign aid funds may be wrong, but it could just be viewed as smart bargaining — _provided the favor asked is a favor for the United States._ In other words, asking for a _quid pro quo_ is OK, as long as it’s not a _quid pro quo_ for Trump personally. > > Now you know and I know that Trump was asking for a personal favor, but is this obvious to all? The U.S. wanted Ukraine to fight corruption, and that’s what Trump asked for. Mentioning the Bidens _specifically_ is what made it cross the line for many of us, but even that is moot. Trump might have zeroed in on the Bidens as a mnemonic for corruption in general. > > _I_ am not making that argument. I’m just saying it’s an argument a defense attorney might be able to sell to a gullible jury. > > With all the other blatant crimes Trump has committed, I’m not happy that the emphasis is on this one ambiguous and contestable crime. > > Trump definitely has huge hatreds for those he regards as enemies, probably feels he’s approaching his own end-game in terms of lifespan, and has about zero love for the United States. There is huge devastation he could wreak out of spite. IMO we should be _very_ worried. I’m not even convinced that what Trump did was necessarily illegal (IANAL, though). But Christ it is just all kinds of wrong and counter to the interests of national security. And as Fiona Hill said, it plays into the hands of Vladimir Putin. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5430 "2019-11-22T16:38:33Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > I consider all news sources. Not having any “news blinders” on, I have not fallen into the hypnotic trance the mainstream media has put approximately half the country under to equate anything going against their narrative as a “danger to our democracy”. I hope this video will snap you out of your trance: > > [https://mobile.twitter.com/TS\_SCI\_MAJIC12/status/1182008427930931200](https://mobile.twitter.com/TS_SCI_MAJIC12/status/1182008427930931200) Ummm…you may not realize this but that video was about Sinclair Broadcast Group. So, yes, I agree with you. Right-wing media is very guilty of this, and lying too. > **[Sinclair Broadcast Group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group)** > > Sinclair, Inc., doing business as Sinclair Broadcast Group, is a publicly traded American telecommunications conglomerate that is controlled by the descendants of company founder Julian Sinclair Smith. Headquartered in the Baltimore suburb of Cockeysville, Maryland, the company is the second-largest television station operator in the United States by number of stations (after Nexstar Media Group), owning or operating a total of 193 stations across the country in over 100 markets (covering 40% ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5431 "2019-11-22T16:48:00Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > I consider all news sources. Not having any “news blinders” on, I have not fallen into the hypnotic trance the mainstream media has put approximately half the country under to equate anything going against their narrative as a “danger to our democracy”. I hope this video will snap you out of your trance: > > [https://mobile.twitter.com/TS\_SCI\_MAJIC12/status/1182008427930931200](https://mobile.twitter.com/TS_SCI_MAJIC12/status/1182008427930931200) You have perfectly described the Republican strategy to keep pushing us toward a lawless authoritarian dictatorship while convincing their base that it’s everyone else that is overreacting. I hope we get ourselves out of this danger. I do not have any hope that those like you will help. We will have to save our democracy in spite of those like you it seems. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5432 "2019-11-22T16:48:54Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Ummm…you may not realize this but that video was about Sinclair Broadcast Group. So, yes, I agree with you. Right-wing media is very guilty of this, and lying too. > > [Sinclair Broadcast Group - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group) Maybe Jim can get a good deal on a new Petard at eBay… ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5433 "2019-11-22T16:54:10Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Maybe Jim can get a good deal on a new Petard at eBay… You scared my cat by making me laugh loudly. 😃 Good joke for a Friday so thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5434 "2019-11-22T16:56:30Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > He’s been doing a piss poor job of it lately. > > It’s as if without the Russians directly interfering, the votes don’t go his way. His desperation doesn’t matter - the votes do. Yep, I’m really doubtful that Trump will make it through the primaries… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5435 "2019-11-22T17:05:39Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You have perfectly described the Republican strategy to keep pushing us toward a lawless authoritarian dictatorship while convincing their base that it’s everyone else that is overreacting. > > I hope we get ourselves out of this danger. I do not have any hope that those like you will help. We will have to save our democracy in spite of those like you it seems. Republicans don’t care about Democracy. There is a lot of evidence for this belief, some of it is spelled out [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/16/opinion/republicans-democracy.html): > [@](#): > > Last week Republicans in the North Carolina House used the occasion of 9/11 to call a surprise vote, passing a budget bill with a supermajority to override the Democratic governor’s veto. They were able to do this only because most Democrats were absent, some of them attending commemorative events; the Democratic leader had advised members that they didn’t need to be present because, he says, he was assured there would be no votes that morning. > > Representative Adam Schiff, the Democratic chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, issued a subpoena to the acting director of national intelligence, who has refused to turn over a whistle-blower complaint that the intelligence community’s inspector general found credible and of “urgent concern.” > > in 2016 the voters of North Carolina chose a Democrat to govern the state; the immediate G.O.P. response was to try to strip away most of the governor’s power. Last year Democrats won a majority of the votes for the state legislature, too, although Republicans retained control thanks to extreme gerrymandering. But they no longer have a veto-proof majority — hence last week’s power grab. > > So what if Democrats demand information they’re legally entitled to? So what if they issue subpoenas? After all, law enforcement has to be carried out by the Justice Department — and under William Barr, Justice has effectively become just another arm of the G.O.P. > > we now know that the F.B.I., essentially at Republican direction, severely limited its investigation into Kavanaugh’s past. So Kavanaugh was appointed to a powerful, lifetime position without a true vetting. This doesn’t include the gerrymandering that they have done so blatantly that several states have deemed it unconstitutional (of course by a 5-4 vote SCOTUS decided that was none of their business). This doesn’t include how Republican-majority Wisconsin, Michigan, and North Carolina congresses voted to remove many powers that always belonged to their governors once that governor was a Democrat. This doesn’t include voter ID laws that also include shortening early voting periods, closing polling stations, voter registration purges, and other things that combat a problem that doesn’t exist while disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of voters. This doesn’t include how Mitch McConnell blocks election security bills designed to ensure the integrity of our elections in 2020 and beyond despite how ever intelligence agency and the Mueller Report pointed out what they did in 2016 and that they’re going to try again (and are still trying). This doesn’t include the Census shenanigans: In 2010 they used it to gerrymander; they are trying to make it so in 2020 minorities are under-reported. I’m sure there is far more evidence I can’t think of off the top of my head. Regardless, the evidence is clear. Republicans don’t like Democracy. They like winning at all costs. Winning at all costs threatens democracy but that’s not a bug in their strategy, it’s a feature. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5436 "2019-11-22T17:09:10Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Yep, I’m really doubtful that Trump will make it through the primaries… Democrats don’t vote in Republican primaries and you didn’t respond to a single point I made. Trump being desperate doesn’t change that nearly every horse he has backed since 2016 has lost. It doesn’t change all of the facts about the 2018 and 2019 elections that the GOP lost. A case can be made that him being desperate is far more likely to make him do things that further inflame Democrats - and as I pointed out that anger is what has fueled all of the Republican failures. Desperate people make mistakes. So he’s desperate. Big whoop. All the evidence shows that the people against him are pretty desperate to get rid of him as well. And we’re not a dictatorship yet. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5437 "2019-11-22T17:09:43Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > So he’s desperate. Big whoop. All the evidence shows that the people against him are pretty desperate to get rid of him. And we’re not a dictatorship yet. I sure hope you’re right. We have a minority that wants to rule over the majority, currently holds that power, and is seeking to cement that rule permanently. The fact that so many are not only ok with this, but are actively supporting it and rooting for it is reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5438 "2019-11-22T17:16:21Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Republicans don’t care about Democracy. There is a lot of evidence for this belief, some of it is spelled out [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/16/opinion/republicans-democracy.html):This doesn’t include the gerrymandering that they have done so blatantly that several states have deemed it unconstitutional (of course by a 5-4 vote SCOTUS decided that was none of their business). > > This doesn’t include how Republican-majority Wisconsin, Michigan, and North Carolina congresses voted to remove many powers that always belonged to their governors once that governor was a Democrat. > > This doesn’t include voter ID laws that also include shortening early voting periods, closing polling stations, voter registration purges, and other things that combat a problem that doesn’t exist while disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of voters. > > This doesn’t include how Mitch McConnell blocks election security bills designed to ensure the integrity of our elections in 2020 and beyond despite how ever intelligence agency and the Mueller Report pointed out what they did in 2016 and that they’re going to try again (and are still trying). > > This doesn’t include the Census shenanigans: In 2010 they used it to gerrymander; they are trying to make it so in 2020 minorities are under-reported. > > I’m sure there is far more evidence I can’t think of off the top of my head. Regardless, the evidence is clear. Republicans don’t like Democracy. They like winning at all costs. Winning at all costs threatens democracy but that’s not a bug in their strategy, it’s a feature. Excellent post. And that’s why I’m afraid for 2020 if Trump is not removed from office. Republicans are now actively counting on Russian interference in order to “win” in 2020. I think one reason McConnell put the kibosh on Kentucky state representatives to steal the governorship for Bevin was he wants to pull that sort of bullshit in the presidential election instead. He’ll attempt to use the Senate to override the legitimacy of voter outcomes in critical states. He wasn’t going to waste the tactic on some small fry creep. If 2020 is a clean election, I’m not worried at all about dislodging the criminal and his henchmen from the White House. It’s the 2020 dirty Russian election that terrifies me. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5439 "2019-11-22T17:30:11Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Trump being desperate doesn’t change that nearly every horse he has backed since 2016 has lost. Most of the candidates he backed before 2018 also lost, if I remember correctly. In both cases, he didn’t go full zombie apocalypse, he just gave a friendly word or speech and went elsehelping. In both cases, we’re also looking at fair elections. Trump is pretty reliable at accusing others of the things that he is actually guilty of. You can bet dollars to donuts that if he starts accusing the Democratic candidate of paying off people to double-vote or bus in people from out of the country to vote, or wherever all nonsense, that he’s giving an admission of things that he is actually doing. We’re not to that point yet, so I don’t know what that will actually involve, but I’d keep my ears open. And, ultimately, it’s about the economy. Trump will cave to China and sign a deal that has no “but verify” component to the agreement just before the vote. The stock market will shriek upwards, and give him a very significant boost. And, I’ll note, Trump losing while preaching a zombie apocalypse and getting churches and Democratic politicians and George Soros assassinated by crazies is not a particularly joyful win for the Dems. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5440 "2019-11-22T17:32:30Z")
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