# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 273
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5441 "2019-11-22T17:35:27Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Excellent post. > > And that’s why I’m afraid for 2020 if Trump is not removed from office. Republicans are now actively counting on Russian interference in order to “win” in 2020. > > I think one reason McConnell put the kibosh on Kentucky state representatives to steal the governorship for Bevin was he wants to pull that sort of bullshit in the presidential election instead. He’ll attempt to use the Senate to override the legitimacy of voter outcomes in critical states. He wasn’t going to waste the tactic on some small fry creep. > > If 2020 is a clean election, I’m not worried at all about dislodging the criminal and his henchmen from the White House. It’s the 2020 dirty Russian election that terrifies me. What should terrify you more is what would come afterward if Trump and the GOP were to win. Increasingly, it is clear that the Republicans are self-aware enough to understand that they are a political minority, representing the views of a rather small portion of the electorate. The scary part is that Republicans will build an apparatus to ensure that they have minority rule indefinitely - and gerrymandering isn’t enough. That’s why Bill Barr exists. He, like the growing cadre of totally unqualified court justices, exist to destroy public institutions. Russia’s game is in causing people to doubt democracy’s fairness, but domestically, those who can capitalize on that kind of chaos are the plutocrats and domestic authoritarians who can, over time, force Americans to accept that America is something other than democratic. American democracy does when people no longer believe that it truly exists, and I’d say we’re on the way there. How else can we explain that we have clear, consistent testimony corroborated by multiple individuals, and yet it doesn’t seem to change attitudes? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5442 "2019-11-22T17:38:48Z")
Here, as example, is a piece of writing from Steven Miller’s friend and one of the “good people” that Trump was talking about at Charlottesville, discussing the “white genocide”: [https://archive.is/cgR2e](https://archive.is/cgR2e) ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5443 "2019-11-22T18:08:51Z")
My fantasy unicorns and rainbows take on all this is that all of the GOP fascist machinations are the last gasps of a dying animal clawing desperately to cling on to life. The long promised demographic changes (aging GOP dying off, more minorities, youthful voters heavily leaning D) will eventually EVENTUALLY take hold. I also look to the trope of California always being ahead of the curve culturally - there the GOP is fundamentally a rump party and largely irrelevant. This fantasy gives my old bones hope that our experiment with democracy will not fail and we will turn this around. I may not see it in my remaining lifetime, but it will come. Surely, GAWD ALMIGHTY it will come. (Can I get a witness?) ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5444 "2019-11-22T18:26:00Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Ummm…you may not realize this but that video was about Sinclair Broadcast Group. So, yes, I agree with you. Right-wing media is very guilty of this, and lying too. > > [Sinclair Broadcast Group - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group) Right wing, left wing is a false dichotomy used to divide, and thus weaken our ability to act democratically to chose the best path. I hope you are not blocking out the message of this video because it cites messengers who you consider to be “right wing”. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5445 "2019-11-22T18:37:41Z")
Trump [continues to smear Yovanovitch](https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1197878059938013184), saying on Fox News: > [@](#): > > “She wouldn’t hang my picture in the embassy. She is in charge of the embassy. She wouldn’t hang it. It look a year-and-a-half, two years to get the picture up. She said bad things about me … This was not an angel this woman, okay?” [David Gura](https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1197905678490312705), _MSNBC_: > [@](#): > > A person connected to Amb. Marie Yovanovich’s legal team, to @NBCNews’s @GeoffRBennett: > > “The Embassy in Kyiv hung the official photographs of the President, Vice President, and Secretary of State as soon as they arrived from Washington, DC.” ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5446 "2019-11-22T18:39:42Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I appreciate your anecdotal information. Not wishing to be rude, but… what _would_ your wife consider an impeachable offense, if not this? > > (snip) > > I appreciate the hearing fatigue. We’re all suffering from it. But dear god – if _this_ is not impeachable conduct, we may as well just strike the language from the Constitution, because in my opinion, it’s meaningless. > > I realize your post was not about this. But your post leaves me in despair, because you’re right. If it were up to my wife Trump would have been impeached 100 times already. She’s just in despair because it’s becoming clear that, if this was our best shot, it wasn’t good enough. > [@squidfood](#): > > There was a brief, shining moment, when it first broke, when it looked like there were cracks at Fox news, and some cracks in the Republican lawmakers, that seemed to show that with this latest behavior, enough was enough. That they would show some honesty and actual shame, and do the right thing. > > But with the circling of the Republican wagons it feels like a death march now - a slog through to the end (for there’s no turning back now, I know that), where honest people get angrier and angrier, but have impotent voices in front of a foregone conclusion. And it increases the stakes and panic in that other death march, towards November 2020. (snip) I had hoped that this part of the inquiry would include court-ordered testimony of those who have resisted subpeonas and documents that the courts are much closer to compelling the release of. Why are we stopping now? That’s the stuff that can be thrown at Trump repeatedly in the election cycle, but now it’s going to trickle out against the post-acquittal noise? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5447 "2019-11-22T18:41:47Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Let me play Devil’s Advocate for a moment. Tell me where I’m wrong. > > Asking for a favor before releasing foreign aid funds may be wrong, but it could just be viewed as smart bargaining — _provided the favor asked is a favor for the United States._ In other words, asking for a _quid pro quo_ is OK, as long as it’s not a _quid pro quo_ for Trump personally. > > Now you know and I know that Trump was asking for a personal favor, but is this obvious to all? The U.S. wanted Ukraine to fight corruption, and that’s what Trump asked for. Mentioning the Bidens _specifically_ is what made it cross the line for many of us, but even that is moot. Trump might have zeroed in on the Bidens as a mnemonic for corruption in general. > > _I_ am not making that argument. I’m just saying it’s an argument a defense attorney might be able to sell to a gullible jury. > > With all the other blatant crimes Trump has committed, I’m not happy that the emphasis is on this one ambiguous and contestable crime. Isn’t it true that Trump had no legal basis for withholding the funds? My very limited understanding is that Congress does the vetting and had already approved the aid to Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5448 "2019-11-22T18:43:12Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > My fantasy unicorns and rainbows take on all this is that all of the GOP fascist machinations are the last gasps of a dying animal clawing desperately to cling on to life. The long promised demographic changes (aging GOP dying off, more minorities, youthful voters heavily leaning D) will eventually EVENTUALLY take hold. > > I also look to the trope of California always being ahead of the curve culturally - there the GOP is fundamentally a rump party and largely irrelevant. > > This fantasy gives my old bones hope that our experiment with democracy will not fail and we will turn this around. I may not see it in my remaining lifetime, but it will come. Surely, GAWD ALMIGHTY it will come. (Can I get a witness?) I actually agree with these points but maybe I have a stronger fear that the Republicans will find a way to keep winning with ever fewer numbers. And use those wins to rig the game even worse in a neverending loop of a nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5449 "2019-11-22T18:47:36Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Right wing, left wing is a false dichotomy used to divide, and thus weaken our ability to act democratically to chose the best path. I hope you are not blocking out the message of this video because it cites messengers who you consider to be “right wing”. We’ve been over this a million times. The Right has spent decades de-ligitimizing any voice that does not comport with their framing. Is it any wonder that when “our side” finally catches up, we find ourselves highly skeptical of any message coming from that side? Especially when we have suffered through so much bad faith arguing? Pass. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5450 "2019-11-22T18:49:35Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Right wing, left wing is a false dichotomy used to divide, and thus weaken our ability to act democratically to chose the best path. I hope you are not blocking out the message of this video because it cites messengers who you consider to be “right wing”. The message of the video is very straightforward. Sinclair Broadcast Group has been buying up local media stations. They force these media stations to put out certain messages called “must runs”. The video is showing such a must run. Sinclair Broadcast Group is definitively a right-wing organization. That really shouldn’t be in question. Look, I’m certainly no fan of news organizations. I’ve been critical of them in the past, I’ll be critical of them in the future. But right at this moment, by leagues and leagues, right-wing media is vastly worse by any reasonable objective measure. Sorry. I know it isn’t easy to hear that you’re supporting a party that is not fully committed to democracy, especially since you probably legitimately agree with some of their policies. Sooner or later you’re going to have to ask yourself whether party is more important than country. > **[Sinclair Group reportedly required over 100 TV stations to air 'must run'...](https://www.businessinsider.com/sinclair-group-tv-stations-air-must-run-anti-migrant-rant-2018-11)** > > Sinclair Broadcast Group is said to have required its over 100 local news outlets to air a defense of the US's use of tear gas on migrants. > **[Sinclair Broadcast Group, the pro-Trump, conservative company taking over...](https://www.vox.com/2018/4/3/17180020/sinclair-broadcast-group-conservative-trump-david-smith-local-news-tv-affiliate)** > > Sinclair reaches 40 percent of households — and soon will reach 72 percent. > **[Sinclair is forcing its stations to run a commentary segment that’s...](https://www.mediamatters.org/sinclair-broadcast-group/sinclair-forcing-its-stations-run-commentary-segment-thats-essentially)** ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5451 "2019-11-22T18:51:24Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > If the economy is rolling, you can’t impeach an incumbent president. Period. I’m not sure what you mean by this. Two things I thought of, going on the assumption that you mean impeach AND throw him out in a senate trial: 1. The mere concept of trying to do so is political suicide. You don’t throw out the head guy when the economy is good. 2. People love a good economy, so they will never support throwing out the head guy, regardless of what he does as president in other matters. Therefore, it is futile to expect senators from the president’s side to vote to do so. In other words, in practicality a president will never be ousted if the economy is rolling. It’s just not possible. Since it could be either or these or neither, I won’t make any assumptions. What I really wanted to do though, and this suggested it to me, was say that I think the idea that public support is a necessary requirement to impeach/oust the president is wrong, this idea that we elected those who will decide the fate of the president, and therefore we get to have a say in what should be done in an impeachment situation. While taking into account the opinions of constituents when deciding one’s course of action as an elected official is prudent, ultimately said officials have a constitutional duty to decide if a president is guilty of high crimes and/or misdemeanors, and it doesn’t matter how many citizens demand a say in it, or how they feel. Just to be clear, I am making no claims as to what you, **asahi** , believe or meant, your post just reminded me I’ve been meaning to bring this up before. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5452 "2019-11-22T18:54:17Z")
Big tease [John Bolton](https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1197946364669370368) offers a new tease: > [@](#): > > Re: speaking up – since resigning as National Security Advisor, the @WhiteHouse refused to return access to my personal Twitter account. Out of fear of what I may say? To those who speculated I went into hiding, I’m sorry to disappoint! ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5453 "2019-11-22T19:03:01Z")
Folks, Trump is really a “third party” President, a true outsider. You need to step outside of the two party dichotomy. It has long been a Uniparty. He needed to pick one of the two parties to run under to have a chance of winning. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5454 "2019-11-22T19:04:27Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Folks, Trump is really a “third party” President, a true outsider. You need to step outside of the two party dichotomy. It has long been a Uniparty. He needed to pick one of the two parties to run under to have a chance of winning. There’s only one party corrupt enough to have him. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5455 "2019-11-22T19:17:37Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > There’s only one party corrupt enough to have him. And enable him. And protect him. And help coverup his crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5456 "2019-11-22T19:20:56Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Folks, Trump is really a “third party” President, a true outsider. You need to step outside of the two party dichotomy. It has long been a Uniparty. He needed to pick one of the two parties to run under to have a chance of winning. He’s a racist conman. He didn’t pick a party. The Republican party picked him. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5457 "2019-11-22T19:28:13Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > So, do the House Dems vote to impeach? > Pros: > > 1. Media outlets get viewers = money > 2. Drown out the Horowitz report news (dropping Dec 9) > 3. Rally base > Cons: > 4. Annoy swing voters > 5. Rally Trump’s base > 6. Hunter Biden, Adam Schiff, and whistleblower can be called to testify in Senate trial > 7. Dem senators running for President TECHNICALLY are prohibited from campaigning during Senate trial > Dem house members can only cite 3 in the pros, and can cite 1, 2, and 4 in the cons. So do they want to throw those implicated in the Horowitz report under the bus, and ignore 2 in the pros? If not, they will vote to impeach. Re: Annoy swing voters: I would think there is a distinct possibility that NOT voting to impeach would annoy some swing voters even more. Who knows, but I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5458 "2019-11-22T19:29:24Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Folks, Trump is really a “third party” President, a true outsider. You need to step outside of the two party dichotomy. It has long been a Uniparty. He needed to pick one of the two parties to run under to have a chance of winning. And he just so happens to have every Republican in congress defending him, covering for him, protecting him. Fox news. Right wing radio. Right wing internet. The RNC, the NRA, every right wing PAC. Yet he’s not one of you? He’s appointed tons of right wing ideologue judges at all levels, including 2 on the supreme court. Yet he’s not a Republican? What exactly are you smoking? What a bunch of BS. What this is, is an attempt to pivot away from Trump now that he might become more of a drag than a help. An attempt to avoid responsibility for causing this to happen to America and enabling it and cheering it on every step of the way. I say, Fuck that. You own this asshole and he will be hanging around your party’s neck forever. What the GOP has done and continues to do needs to never be forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5459 "2019-11-22T19:32:56Z")
Trump admitted live on TV the thing he’s being accused of: > **[Trump essentially admitted on live TV to doing the thing he's accused of in...](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-admits-to-ukraine-military-aid-quid-pro-quo-tv-2019-11)** > > President Donald Trump acknowledged that he held up military aid to pressure Ukraine to give in to his political demands. > [@](#): > > “They have the server, right, from the DNC, Democratic National Committee,” Trump said. “The FBI went in and they told them, get out of here, we’re not giving it to you. They gave the server to CrowdStrike or whatever it’s called, which is a country — which is a company owned by a very wealthy Ukrainian. And I still want to see that server. You know, the FBI’s never gotten that server. That’s a big part of this whole thing. Why did they give it to a Ukrainian company?” > > The cohost Steve Doocy, appearing to anticipate the path Trump was going down, asked incredulously: “Are you sure they did that? Are you sure they gave it to Ukraine?” > > “Well, that’s what the word is. That’s what I asked, actually, in my phone call,” he said, referring to his July 25 conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that’s the focus of the whistleblower complaint that sparked the impeachment inquiry. > > Then, critically, the president added: “I mean, I asked it very point-blank, because we’re looking for corruption. There’s tremendous corruption. Why should we be giving hundreds of millions of dollars to countries when there’s this kind of corruption?” > > In less than a minute, Trump appeared to, for the first time, link the 2016 conspiracy theory to the vague “corruption” concern his allies have cited as rationale for his withholding the critical military aid to Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5460 "2019-11-22T19:36:20Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You have perfectly described the Republican strategy to keep pushing us toward a lawless authoritarian dictatorship while convincing their base that it’s everyone else that is overreacting. > > I hope we get ourselves out of this danger. I do not have any hope that those like you will help. We will have to save our democracy in spite of those like you it seems. Do you believe that it is an actual, thought out and planned strategy of the Republicans to turn this country into a lawless authoritarian dictatorship, or perhaps only that their feckless and cowardly actions under the Trump administration are simply wholly misguided, and may result in that outcome? Because I think the former idea is pretty unlikely, despite their despicable actions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=272) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=274)