# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 279
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5561 "2019-11-23T15:41:19Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > You left out 1994 (source = Wikipedia): > Democrat president: > Senate: Republican +8, Democrat -8 > House: Republican +54, Democrat -54 I’m cherry picking just like you did. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5562 "2019-11-23T15:47:12Z")
Trump obviously needs to listen to the Chicken Littles or he [wouldn’t be “miserable” and “intolerable”](https://youtu.be/TUaBQMTH5PY) I don’t think. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5563 "2019-11-23T16:06:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I’m wondering what will happen when Republicans in the Senate start subpoenaing witnesses for the trial. Do they expect Hunter Biden to testify? If I were him, I would just claim “absolute immunity”. If questioned about it, I would simply say it means whatever I want it to mean, per Trump v. Schiff. That could easily backfire on them. They been painting him as some sort of worthless wastrel, without either an energy or corporate governance background, totally unfit to serve on the board of a corporation. But its possible young Biden did bring substantial value to Burisma. From his background, it sounds like his experience was in raising capital and soliciting investment. You know, sales. And he might have been really good at it. I think the Pubs best strategy is to paint him out to be a totally useless wastrel without letting him testify. It’s possible he is competent and well spoken and people will see that he brought value to Burisma. I don’t know either way, I’ve never heard him speak. But this could backfire bigly. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5564 "2019-11-23T16:12:20Z")
The interesting thing about the Hunter Biden whataboutism: when you listen to the charges, here’s what he’s being accused of: being on the board, and being compensated, while being Joe Biden’s son. That’s it. Nobody has actually suggested anything untoward has taken place; it’s just “Hunter Biden! A bazillion dollars for being on the Burisma board!! Horrors!!!” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5565 "2019-11-23T16:21:48Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > Walken, for the record, less than 3. > \<3 > > You’re doing god’s work. _Fewer_ than 3. What? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5566 "2019-11-23T16:25:26Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > The interesting thing about the Hunter Biden whataboutism: when you listen to the charges, here’s what he’s being accused of: being on the board, and being compensated, while being Joe Biden’s son. > > That’s it. Nobody has actually suggested anything untoward has taken place; it’s just “Hunter Biden! A bazillion dollars for being on the Burisma board!! Horrors!!!” They don’t have to have substance; it’s enough to get an investigation going. It’s the implication of corruption that would be enough to discourage participation in actually making the effort to follow the race and make the effort to drive to the polls, stand in line, and vote. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5567 "2019-11-23T16:35:51Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > That could easily backfire on them. They been painting him as some sort of worthless wastrel, without either an energy or corporate governance background, totally unfit to serve on the board of a corporation. > . I’ve mentioned before, and I don’t know why it doesn’t seem to get any play, but Hunter served on the Amtrak board of governors previous to Burisma. Appointed by Bush. He seems like a wastrel even still, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5568 "2019-11-23T16:46:52Z")
“He had to announce the investigations. He didn’t actually have to do them, as I understood it.” - Gordon Sondland That quote from Sondland’s testimony _should_ put an end to the idea that there was a legitimate anti-corruption reason for any of this. It should, but it probably won’t. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5569 "2019-11-23T17:10:27Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It just gets [worse and worse](https://twitter.com/weareoversight/status/1198082758926651392?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet). ([Americanoversight.org](http://Americanoversight.org)) > > Looks like they’re not willing to ignore the orders of a Federal judge, at least. Much more to come. This information was obtained via a FOIA. There are other FOIA active requests in the words of their Executive Director, “in the dozens.” > > Well done, American Oversight. Well done!!! How did the documents get released? Presumably Trump and Pompeo didn’t want them released. Did the FOIA request slip through the cracks? Did a lower-level State Dept. official pre-empt his superiors? Did Pompeo decide to obey the law for fear of a prison term? Is this the “deep state” fighting back? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5570 "2019-11-23T17:19:52Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > How did the documents get released? Presumably Trump and Pompeo didn’t want them released. Did the FOIA request slip through the cracks? Did a lower-level State Dept. official pre-empt his superiors? Did Pompeo decide to obey the law for fear of a prison term? Is this the “deep state” fighting back? I read through all 100 pages, there’s hardly anything in them. The “bombshells” appear to be discussions about phone calls between Pompeo and Giuliani, and copies of 1 or 2 of Pompeo’s schedules that showed 20 minute blocks of time carved out for Giuliani. It’s interesting, those schedules were basically full 8 hour days of 20 minute phone calls dealing with people and subjects all over the map, with 15 minutes in between presumably for someone to brief him on the next call’s topic. Being secretary of state sounds like my worst nightmare. Anyway, if they were aware of the release they probably didn’t care, I’m not sure if Pompeo has stipulated that he talked to Rudy at some point but it doesn’t seem like anyone on Trump’s defense team disputes it. In fact, they would just say it adds legitimacy to what Rudy was doing. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5571 "2019-11-23T17:27:11Z")
It corroborates Sondland’s testimony - that’s one thing. But we’re probably just getting started. More to follow. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5572 "2019-11-23T17:28:16Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > The interesting thing about the Hunter Biden whataboutism: when you listen to the charges, here’s what he’s being accused of: being on the board, and being compensated, while being Joe Biden’s son. > > That’s it. Nobody has actually suggested anything untoward has taken place; it’s just “Hunter Biden! A bazillion dollars for being on the Burisma board!! Horrors!!!” The extension is that Joe shut down a Ukrainian investigation into Burisma in order to keep Hunter’s gravy train flowing. Whether or not Hunter was qualified is irrelevant to that accusation, but also if Hunter were squeeky clean it would lessen the impact of Joe’s alleged interference. Not that any of this actually matters, but Hunter’s lack of qualifications and the bad optics of him being on a foreign board are at least factual, and iirc prominent democrats were aware of and displeased with the bad optics when it was going on. In a sea of bullshit, criticizing Hunter’s role with Burisma is one of the few things Republicans are doing that’s got any connection to reality. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5573 "2019-11-23T17:53:03Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > **How did the documents get released?** Presumably Trump and Pompeo didn’t want them released. Did the FOIA request slip through the cracks? Did a lower-level State Dept. official pre-empt his superiors? Did Pompeo decide to obey the law for fear of a prison term? Is this the “deep state” fighting back? This is regular Americans fighting back. Any American could have made the FOIA request, but it so happened that American Oversight did. From their website, here is who they are: > [@](#): > > American Oversight is a non-partisan, nonprofit ethics watchdog and is the top Freedom of Information Act litigator investigating the Trump administration. Since our launch in March 2017, we have filed more than 100 public records lawsuits, uncovering and publishing tens of thousands of documents including senior officials’ calendars, emails, and expense records. Relying on FOIA and other public records laws, we file requests to uncover misconduct that otherwise would not see daylight, and then we harness the independent power of the courts to force the administration to obey the law. There has never been a legal leg to stand on for the State Department or others to withhold these or any other requested documents. They literally ignored the letter of the law in failing to provide them to Congress in response to subpoenas. That was bad. Anyway, American Oversight filed their FOIA request and a Federal judge ordered the State Department to comply with the request and release the documents by midnight last night. A lot of people (including me) were holding their breath, watching to see if the administration would ignore a judge’s order. Up to now, they haven’t. And they didn’t. So they are still responding to the courts, if nothing else. If they had ignored the court’s order, then we really would be just another authoritarian system. It’s why Moscow Mitch is working so feverishly to pack the courts with their lackeys. They want the veneer of a democratic republic without actually having one. They want people in judicial positions who will rubber stamp their authoritarian actions so they can point and say, “See? We’re doing it by the book!” when in fact, they are already ignoring many Constitutional mandates as they choose. What I love about documents is that their evidence is irrefutable. Trump Republicans can try to shade the meaning of testimony from witnesses, pretend the witnesses are partisan or liars, dirty up their reputations. But documents always speak for themselves. You are right that Trump and Pompeo didn’t want them released, even if, as **steronz** points out, this tranche doesn’t reveal a ton. But AO indicated they have “dozens” of FOIA requests outstanding, so there is more to come. For me, the important thing is that AO forced the State Department to comply with the law. I also think it’s big news when a little over a month ago we’ve gone from the Trump “administration” defense of, “Whut? Secretly and illegally withhold military aid for political favors to subvert another election?” to documentary confirmation that the top State Department official was colluding with unofficial Giuliani and his now-indicted henchmen to undermine our official national security interests against the work and policies of his own people. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5574 "2019-11-23T18:03:10Z")
Regarding Republican support for Trump, fear of tweets is one thing. However, the editor of the National Review, Rich Lowry had an interesting [interview](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/11/22/20952353/trump-nationalism-america-first-rich-lowry) with Vox reporter Sean Illing. His comments explicitly explain the rest of Trump’s support from modern Conservative Republican to me. > [@Rich Lowry - National Review](#): > > (Emphasis mine) > > Sean Illing > > I have to say, it’s strange that you were so staunchly anti-Trump a few years ago, even publishing an entire collection of essays trashing his worldview, and now you write in this book that Republicans should “thoughtfully integrate his nationalism into the party’s orthodoxy.” > > What changed? > > Rich Lowry > > A couple of things. We ran our “Against Trump” issue in December 2015 prior to the Iowa caucuses. We desperately wanted to defeat him. We thought there were 16 better alternatives. But fast-forward to today, he’s now the president, and we’ve seen how he’s governed and I’ve been surprised in two ways. > > I’ve been surprised how on some really important matters of substance to conservatives of long-standing, **he’s been a rock, like on pro-life stuff, on conscience rights, on judges. That was one of the deep concerns we had about him but he’s basically delivered.** > > My other surprise is I thought he would attempt to tone it down in terms of his personal conduct once he took office, but he absolutely hasn’t. The office has made no impression on him whatsoever. \*\* The huge downside is that he doesn’t respect the separation of powers in our government, he doesn’t think constitutionally, and says and does things no president should do or say\*\*. And I and my colleagues call him out on that. > > But at the end of the day, we’re asked to either favor Trump or root for Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders or Joe Biden or Mayor Pete, who oppose us on basically everything. So it’s a pretty simple calculation. In short, as with autocratic world leaders, Trump is a useful idiot. They might prefer more useful and less idiot, but they will work with what they got… ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5575 "2019-11-23T18:14:30Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > **The extension is that Joe shut down a Ukrainian investigation into Burisma in order to keep Hunter’s gravy train flowing.** Whether or not Hunter was qualified is irrelevant to that accusation, but also if Hunter were squeeky clean it would lessen the impact of Joe’s alleged interference. > > Not that any of this actually matters, but Hunter’s lack of qualifications and the bad optics of him being on a foreign board are at least factual, and iirc prominent democrats were aware of and displeased with the bad optics when it was going on. In a sea of bullshit, criticizing Hunter’s role with Burisma is one of the few things Republicans are doing that’s got any connection to reality. And this is simply untrue. Joe Biden was tasked with the official Obama administration’s goal of pursuing more corruption in Ukraine, not less. Biden was dispatched to oversee the Ukraine’s firing of Ukrainian Inspector General Shokin _because he was corrupt_. In fact, the investigation into Burisma under Shokin _had gone dormant_ at the time Joe Biden aided in Shokin’s firing. There was no active investigation into Burisma at the time. The idea was to get a new Ukrainian IG who would investigation more corruption, not less. This was not only the goal of the United States, but also the goal of other Western European governments. A good CT debunker explanation can be found [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/29/business/media/fact-check-biden-ukraine-burisma-china-hunter.html). (New York Times) That link also takes on the stupid Crowdstrike crap and Hunter Biden China connections. It’s a good read. I don’t disagree that Hunter Biden leaned on his father’s reputation to get his Burisma board position. But if we’re worried about nepotism, we could easily look at Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump, Andrew Giuliani who now works as Trump’s “sports liaison,” and William Barr’s son-in-law, Tyler McGaughey, who now works in the White House Counsel’s office. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5576 "2019-11-23T19:07:35Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Regarding Republican support for Trump, fear of tweets is one thing. However, the editor of the National Review, Rich Lowry had an interesting [interview](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/11/22/20952353/trump-nationalism-america-first-rich-lowry) with Vox reporter Sean Illing. His comments explicitly explain the rest of Trump’s support from modern Conservative Republican to me. > > In short, as with autocratic world leaders, Trump is a useful idiot. They might prefer more useful and less idiot, but they will work with what they got… The argument completely ignores that if you impeach Trump, Elizabeth Warren does not become President and that Pence would be even more in line with what he’s looking for. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5577 "2019-11-23T19:11:54Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The way I look at it is that bribery and extortion are two sides of the same coin, with extortion the worse side because coercion is worse than inducement. Republicans will surely come to the point of arguing that since this is extortion, not bribery, it’s not grounds for impeachment, but that won’t pass the laugh test. If the Founders considered bribery sufficient to impeach over, they surely felt the same about extortion. Well, seems like Trump was asking for a bribe, while simultaneously committing extortion. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5578 "2019-11-23T19:12:06Z")
Super-genius Devin Nunes is threatening to sue the media for reporting on what Lev Parnas is saying about helping out on one of Nunes’ junkets to gather conspiracy theories. Note, Nunes isn’t talking about suing his buddy Parnas for defamation. No, he wants to sue the media for reporting on what Parnas is saying. Of course, there’s a reasonable chance that Parnas is lying. He’s really no more trustworthy that Nunes, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5579 "2019-11-23T19:22:03Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The Republicans goal is to turn Joe Biden 2020 into the Hillary 2016 candidate, and why wouldn’t they adopt that strategy? It worked, after all. > > Assuming Biden wins, they will weaken him as he hobbles across the finish line into the convention. They’ll assert that the Bidens are corrupt and rotten to their core, and that they’ll do anything to win a nomination, which will probably cause some Bernistas to sour on him. The GOP is using whatever power they have left to cast doubt on democracy, and they’re just getting started. This will go on for months. Generally agree but a lot of Americans just didn’t like Hillary and Bill, period. There was 25 years of conspiracies about them. Bill was in office one year when this wackjob was produced. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/zCGW033-82c/maxresdefault.jpg "The Original Clinton Chronicles") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGW033-82c) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5580 "2019-11-23T19:44:36Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > The extension is that Joe shut down a Ukrainian investigation into Burisma in order to keep Hunter’s gravy train flowing. Except that didn’t really happen either. There was no investigation of Burisma. The prosecutor Biden worked to have fired (Shokin) wasn’t investigating Burisma. He wasn’t investigating any of the corruption in Ukraine. He was taking bribes NOT to in investigate corruption. That’s why the US wanted him fired. This story that Biden’s son was being investigated is totally false. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=278) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=280)