# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 282
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5621 "2019-11-24T19:21:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …PS: I misspelled Rudy’s last name and got that red underscore that says “Hey, dumbass, you can’t spell for shit, click to see a recommended spelling”. Which was “anilingus”. I have no comment to offer. 😃 Likewise, no comment. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5622 "2019-11-24T19:32:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If he has evidence of Biden breaking the law, doesn’t sitting on it constitute obstruction of justice? No, why would it? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5623 "2019-11-24T20:12:36Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If he has evidence of Biden breaking the law, doesn’t sitting on it constitute obstruction of justice? > **[18 U.S. Code § 4 - Misprision of felony](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/4)** If it the law supposedly broken by Biden is a felony . ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5624 "2019-11-24T20:56:19Z")
Lol @ D’Anconia. You really should research sometimes before dropping your obvious truth bombs. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5625 "2019-11-24T22:32:52Z")
> [@margin](#): > > The DOJ that’s run by Trump’s lapdog, Barr? For dirt on Biden - yes - for Dirt on Trump, also yes - but so it can be buried. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5626 "2019-11-24T22:33:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, why would it? > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > [18 U.S. Code § 4 - Misprision of felony | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/4) > > If it the law supposedly broken by Biden is a felony > . Let’s also note (given the likely sources from which Giuliani would have been hearing of these crimes): [https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/13/fec-election-foreign-trump-1364598](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/13/fec-election-foreign-trump-1364598) Of course, one might note that there are people in the world who perform investigations. There are also people in the world who you can ask to perform illicit activities and then, legally, be able to refuse to answer questions about that on the basis of attorney-client privilege. These people are not professionals at performing investigations and one would generally not choose them for such a purpose since that’s not what they’re good at. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5627 "2019-11-24T22:56:58Z")
ABC News: [House Intelligence Committee in possession of video, audio recordings from Giuliani associate Lev Parnas](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-intelligence-committee-possession-video-audio-recordings-giuliani/story?id=67276448) > [@](#): > > The House Intelligence Committee is in possession of audio and video recordings and photographs provided to the committee by Lev Parnas, an associate of President Donald Trump’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, who reportedly played a key role in assisting him in his efforts to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and Ukraine, multiple sources familiar with the matter tell ABC News. > > The material submitted to the committee includes audio, video and photos that include Giuliani and Trump. It was unclear what the content depicts and the committees only began accessing the material last week. > … > Sources tell ABC News the tapes were provided as part of that congressional subpoena issued to Parnas, and the former Giuliani ally also provided a number of documents both in English and Ukrainian to the committee in two separate productions, sources told ABC News. > … > Parnas’ associate, Fruman, has not cooperated with the committee. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5628 "2019-11-24T23:22:10Z")
> [@](#): > > The material submitted to the committee includes audio, video and photos that include Giuliani **and Trump.** It was unclear what the content depicts and the committees only began accessing the material last week. I bolded the most fascinating part of your quote, **Walken**. Whatever the Intelligence Committee does with this evidence, I hope SDNY uses it in their own case(s) to indict Trump while he is in office (assuming their is evidence to do so, and what are the odds?), so we can finally get a definitive ruling from the SCOTUS on that horrible DOJ OLC memo that says a president can’t be indicted while in office. I notice the Israelis don’t have a similar prohibition. Also noted several of our own district and circuit courts made a point to say in their recent rulings that there has never been definitive guidance on this issue. There needs to be, and this is just the president for it. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5629 "2019-11-24T23:30:55Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > ABC News: [House Intelligence Committee in possession of video, audio recordings from Giuliani associate Lev Parnas](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-intelligence-committee-possession-video-audio-recordings-giuliani/story?id=67276448) Man’s starting to grow on me. If he starts handing over emails and texts, then I’ll call him a national hero regardless of his motives. For the moment I’m just glad to see that so far he hasn’t paraded out any outlandish accusations and that he’s still warming up to the side of good. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5630 "2019-11-25T00:28:37Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > [18 U.S. Code § 4 - Misprision of felony | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/4) > > If it the law supposedly broken by Biden is a felony > . The Congressional Research Service doesn’t appear to agree. > [@](#): > > The general federal obstruction of justice provisions are six: 18 U.S.C. 1512 (tampering with federal witnesses), 1513 (retaliating against federal witnesses), 1503 (obstruction of pending federal court proceedings), 1505 (obstruction of pending congressional or federal administrative proceedings), 371 (conspiracy), and contempt.4 In addition to these, there are a host of other statutes that penalize obstruction by violence, corruption, destruction of evidence, or deceit. [https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RL/RL34303](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RL/RL34303) None of those apply to simply not reporting a crime. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5631 "2019-11-25T00:34:09Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Man’s starting to grow on me. > > If he starts handing over emails and texts, then I’ll call him a national hero regardless of his motives. For the moment I’m just glad to see that so far he hasn’t paraded out any outlandish accusations and that he’s still warming up to the side of good. It will all be labeled a deep fake. “Folks, this is a deep fake from the deep state!” The 40 percent will buy it, or they’ll simply acquiesce on their way to the Right to Life rally or (evangelical) church or both. How craven will the Senate be? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5632 "2019-11-25T00:58:15Z")
Fox’s Chris Wallace interviews Sen. Kennedy (R-La), via [Aaron Rupar](https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1198666401826967552), _Vox_: > [@](#): > > WALLACE: Senator Kennedy, who do you believe was responsible for hacking the DNC & Clinton campaign? Russia or Ukraine? > > KENNEDY: I don’t know. Nor do you. > > W: The entire intel community says it was Russia. > > K: Right. But it could be Ukraine. Fiona Hill is entitled to her opinion Here’s video of the phone call between Bartiromo and Nunes on Fox, via [Aaron Rupar](https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1198659080417619970), _Vox_: > [@](#): > > BARTIROMO: Were you in Vienna w/Shokin? > > NUNES: Because there is criminal activity here, I’m not going to sit here & try to compete against the media > > B: To be clear, you’re telling me CNN committed criminal activity? > > N: It’s very likely, or they’re an accessory to it, right? [Aaron Rupar](https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1198753195645972481), _Vox_: > [@](#): > > To be clear about what’s going on here, @DevinNunes says he will sue CNN for … [checks notes] … quoting a statement made by Lev Parnas’s lawyer ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5633 "2019-11-25T01:16:57Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Fox’s Chris Wallace interviews Sen. Kennedy (R-La), via [Aaron Rupar](https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1198666401826967552), _Vox_: I feel like a few forces in the Republican Party are going to pretty quickly slap this sort of talk down, before they start backing the party into a corner where people start asking, “Then why are we helping Ukraine?” Falsities are for the lay-people and elections, not national security policy. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5634 "2019-11-25T01:46:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The Congressional Research Service doesn’t appear to agree. > > [https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RL/RL34303](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RL/RL34303) > > None of those apply to simply not reporting a crime. > [@Your Cite](#): > > Obstruction of Justice: An Overview of Some of the Federal Statutes That Prohibit Interference with Judicial, Executive, or Legislative Activities The existence of SOME in the very title of the report lends credence to the strong possibility it is not an exhaustive list. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5635 "2019-11-25T01:56:45Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I feel like a few forces in the Republican Party are going to pretty quickly slap this sort of talk down, before they start backing the party into a corner where people start asking, “Then why are we helping Ukraine?” > > Falsities are for the lay-people and elections, not national security policy. Depends on the degree to which the Republicans in question are indebted to/compromised by the Kremlin. National security considerations, in that case, might be expected to take a back seat to covering of asses. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5636 "2019-11-25T02:15:23Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > The existence of SOME in the very title of the report lends credence to the strong possibility it is not an exhaustive list. Even more comically, his cite discusses 18 U.S. Code § 4.Misprision of felony that I cited (I’m going to guess he didn’t bother to even click on my link or he would have known that it didn’t link to obstruction of justice. Clicking is hard). Also, I love that D’Anconia didn’t get any further than the first paragraph of the summary. LOL Reading is hard. Now, I know D’Anconia is going to hang his hat on the fact that misprision of a felony isn’t technically obstruction of justice (and will try to use this as a tangential distraction from the thrust of the current discussion on the thread), so let’s just leave it at it appears that Guiliani **may** have broken the law, which was the obvious spirit of the question being asked even though it was phrased around a specific statute. What saves Guiliani is: 1 - The DoJ isn’t going to come after him because they’re corrupt; and, 2 - He may not have committed the fourth element of the crime of misprision. I’m not a lawyer, and obviously the evidence at this point is only his laughably inept public statement. But maybe as they dig deeper into his other criminal activities they may find that he did some concealing of Trump’s crimes. That would be a shame. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5637 "2019-11-25T02:27:33Z")
Also, the whole thing is pointless since Guiliani doesn’t have any insurance relating to the Bidens. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5638 "2019-11-25T02:59:31Z")
For the record: 1. As noted, “some of” the statutes is a different thing than “an authoritative list of”. 2. If someone puts a strawberry and a banana on a table and announces, “These are ALL the fruits of the world”, and then you show a lime, the lime doesn’t stop being a fruit. 3. But, likewise, if the pre-eminent expert on fruit does compile a genuinely complete selection of fruits on a (very large) table, and you show a beet (because it’s sweet), that doesn’t make the beet a fruit. And you should be sceptical that you have outdone an expert, in general. 4. As I read it, in order to commit misprision of felony, you have to perform an “affirmative act to conceal the crime”. Meaning that you aren’t guilty simply by, say, being _too busy to report_ or _on edge about reporting_ because the local gang has a custom of beheading people who report crimes. You have to do something pro-active like continuing to conceal the crime when directly asked about it by the authorities, hiding evidence related to the crime, etc. > **[Misprision of Felony](https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/misprision-felony.htm)** > > “Misprision of felony” is a crime that occurs when someone knows a felony has been committed, but fails to inform the authorities about it. If the Feds ask him what crime he is aware of, he will have to answer them (and they should go ask him, given that he has made the admission on TV). But if they ask him why he didn’t report, if he explains something like, “I’m not an expert on criminal law and I wanted to run the information by an expert before filling a crime report”, then he would potentially be in the clear. Granted, they’ll then ask, “Then why did you say that you knew you had criminal information?” Which he can easily explain as [political puffery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery). How he then explains the obvious follow-up, “How exactly would it be that releasing anti-Biden puffery to the public would serve as insurance against President Trump throwing you under the bus, when you were being hired to find and release anti-Biden puffery to the public?” I could not say. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5639 "2019-11-25T05:10:48Z")
All of everyone’s texts are on the record, since 2018: > **[‘Tremendous value’: White House began storing texts last year, creating...](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/tremendous-value-white-house-began-storing-texts-last-year-creating-evidence-cache-for-democrats)** > > About a year after President Trump took office, the White House quietly began storing text messages sent and received by aides on work phones, establishing a repository of potential evidence that Democrats could search in their impeachment... (Presuming that the Democrats go for them, that the Supreme Court allows them to have them, and the White House doesn’t delete them.) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5640 "2019-11-25T05:34:51Z")
This is a bit of older news, but I can’t resist… About three weeks ago, when there was first talk of putting Jim Jordan on the committee, I saw an article on AlterNet about it, which included [this picture](https://www.alternet.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/George-Ste-1170x675.jpg). This was the first photo I had seen of him, or at least the first that I noticed. That evil smirk on his face reminded me of some one. I’ve seen that face before! Who could it be? Why YES, of course! I knew it! It’s [THIS guy](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/beavisandbutthead/images/9/93/Beavis-1.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/267?cb=20120108001944)! Who could be mistaken? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=281) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=283)