# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 287
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5721 "2019-11-27T07:01:22Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You do realize that this precedent goes for both sides going forward right? No more oversight means no more oversight in either direction. > > Or are you all of a sudden going to have an epiphany about executive authority and oversight once a Democrat is elected president? > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I know for a fact every republican in every government position will. Likewise with the more “conservative” honchos on the Supreme Court. I believe it’s understood that they have a deeply entrenched view of the “Unitary Executive” who has unbridled power and authority over most everything. I keep wondering what tune the same will sing when a Dem is Prez. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5722 "2019-11-27T07:05:14Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Likewise with the more “conservative” honchos on the Supreme Court. I believe it’s understood that they have a deeply entrenched view of the “Unitary Executive” who has unbridled power and authority over most everything. > > I keep wondering what tune the same will sing when a Dem is Prez. I suspect the objective is to rig everything so there is never, ever again a Dem who is Prez. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5723 "2019-11-27T08:07:06Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Likewise with the more “conservative” honchos on the Supreme Court. I believe it’s understood that they have a deeply entrenched view of the “Unitary Executive” who has unbridled power and authority over most everything. > > I keep wondering what tune the same will sing when a Dem is Prez. Oh they’re absolutely included in that group I mentioned above. Most of the people currently being nominated to courts around the country are not qualified, neutral jurists. They’re hardline conservative partisans, sometimes with no qualifications other than “sucked up to Trump”. The courts have always been political, but by now it’s so obvious that anyone still holding out hope is just begging to be played. All of the rulings allowing Trump to basically do whatever he wants by a 5-4 partisan split will suddenly become 5-4 partisan rulings forbidding basically whatever the democrats try to do. Just yesterday, I read this article on Slate… [Not encouraging](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/11/kavanaugh-nondelegation-gundy-supreme-court.html?via=recirc_recent). > [@](#): > > The list of statutes susceptible to attack under a revived nondelegation doctrine is lengthy. Campaign finance laws that entrust the Federal Election Commission to limit coordination between political campaigns and outside groups? Likely gone. (Such coordination allows candidates to easily skirt campaign finance limits.) Workplace laws that charge the Department of Labor with adjusting wage, hour, and overtime rules? Possibly doomed, as well. Laws regulating drugs, tobacco, firearms, crime, and immigration are shot through with significant delegations to federal agencies. Those may soon be on the chopping block. > > Worse, the nondelegation doctrine may be applied in a manner that’s inconsistent—and politically charged—because the standard is so subjective: A “major policy question” is whatever five justices say it is, and there may be overlap between what those justices say and what the Republican Party desires. > > Defenders of the nondelegation doctrine like Neil Gorsuch and Kavanaugh insist that their theory would restore legislative power to Congress. That is misleading at best. The doctrine would limit Congress’ power to delegate authority to agencies, giving courts a new veto over the people’s representatives. It is a theory that aggrandizes the dominance of courts over Congress, not Congress over agencies. And it is resurgent just as Republicans gain control over the judiciary. Kavanaugh’s opinion on Monday gives enemies of federal regulation—over the environment, the economy, our elections, you name it—a gift that could keep giving for decades to come. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5724 "2019-11-27T15:48:01Z")
Just a bit of trivia that doesn’t seem to fit any other threads … Adam Schiff was in St. Louis the day before yesterday to attend the groundbreaking of the new National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) facility. He had dinner at a trendy vegetarian restaurant. He’s a vegan. [Johnny Carson impression]I did not know that.[/Johnny Carson impression] [https://m.riverfronttimes.com/artsblog/2019/11/26/adam-schiff-eats-vegan-food-at-treehouse-in-st-louis-amid-impeachment-inquiry](https://m.riverfronttimes.com/artsblog/2019/11/26/adam-schiff-eats-vegan-food-at-treehouse-in-st-louis-amid-impeachment-inquiry) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5725 "2019-11-27T15:59:34Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Here is [Judge Jackson’s 118-page decision](https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6516-jackson-ruling-in-mcgahn-subpo/92d4672db63b5cac498d/optimized/full.pdf?smid=nytcore-ios-share#page=1) (pdf). I was watching Maddow’s summary of the ruling on YouTube last night. I lost it when she said, “I’ve never seen ‘kneecapping’ in a decision before. I must be reading the wrong kind of decisions.” ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5726 "2019-11-27T16:10:15Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Just a bit of trivia that doesn’t seem to fit any other threads … Adam Schiff was in St. Louis the day before yesterday to attend the groundbreaking of the new National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) facility. He had dinner at a trendy vegetarian restaurant. He’s a vegan. [Johnny Carson impression]I did not know that.[/Johnny Carson impression] > > [https://m.riverfronttimes.com/artsblog/2019/11/26/adam-schiff-eats-vegan-food-at-treehouse-in-st-louis-amid-impeachment-inquiry](https://m.riverfronttimes.com/artsblog/2019/11/26/adam-schiff-eats-vegan-food-at-treehouse-in-st-louis-amid-impeachment-inquiry) Not to diminish your post in any way, but I feel sad that this thread has gone from “Holy shit, can you believe what Trump did?” to “Guess what? Schiff’s a vegan.” Sort of a metaphor for the whole damn story. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5727 "2019-11-27T16:21:47Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Just a bit of trivia that doesn’t seem to fit any other threads … Adam Schiff was in St. Louis the day before yesterday to attend the groundbreaking of the new National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) facility. He had dinner at a trendy vegetarian restaurant. He’s a vegan. [Johnny Carson impression]I did not know that.[/Johnny Carson impression] > > [https://m.riverfronttimes.com/artsblog/2019/11/26/adam-schiff-eats-vegan-food-at-treehouse-in-st-louis-amid-impeachment-inquiry](https://m.riverfronttimes.com/artsblog/2019/11/26/adam-schiff-eats-vegan-food-at-treehouse-in-st-louis-amid-impeachment-inquiry) > [@Akaj](#): > > Not to diminish your post in any way, but I feel sad that this thread has gone from “Holy shit, can you believe what Trump did?” to “Guess what? Schiff’s a vegan.” Sort of a metaphor for the whole damn story. Well, it IS trivia, and to me pretty interesting. But my first thought was, “One more thing for Republicans to sneer at and ridicule about him.” That part IS sad. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5728 "2019-11-27T16:41:28Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Well, it IS trivia, and to me pretty interesting. But my first thought was, “One more thing for Republicans to sneer at and ridicule about him.” That part IS sad. No kidding. “Who you gonna believe? Our awesome patriotic president, or those politically correct socialist vegans?” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5729 "2019-11-27T16:47:01Z")
Someone who eats his steak well-done vs. someone who eats it not at all. Geez, you guys really _are_ screwed. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5730 "2019-11-27T17:35:37Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Someone who eats his steak well-done vs. someone who eats it not at all. Geez, you guys really _are_ screwed. MHO, it’s far, far better to eschew steak altogether than to desecrate it by cremation. Does he put ketchup on it as well? (Sez the person who hardly ever eats steak, but gets it next to raw when he does.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5731 "2019-11-27T18:02:59Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > MHO, it’s far, far better to eschew steak altogether than to desecrate it by cremation. Does he put ketchup on it as well? > > (Sez the person who hardly ever eats steak, but gets it next to raw when he does.) As Dennis Leary once said, “Just bring me a god damn cow-I’ll eat some of it raw and ride what’s left home”. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5732 "2019-11-27T18:45:29Z")
OK, since this thread has devolved into bad meat jokes, I’ll risk a lightning rod sub-topic. Censure. Since we know the Senate won’t remove Trump in an impeachment, would a strong, bipartisan (say, 50 House Pubs and 15 GOP Senators) censure vote be a better outcome (with “better” defined as “more likely to help the Dem candidate win next year”) than impeach-and-acquit? Of course, as I write this I realize I’ve made a logical mistake. No Pubs will vote for censure. If they know they’re going to “win” on impeachment, why would they concede anything? They know they can spin a senate acquittal into “complete exoneration,” so why go on record with even the slightest suggestion Trump did anything wrong? But maybe I’m missing something. And I’m NOT advocating for censure – I firmly believe Trump’s actions in this matter should disqualify him from office. But I can read the writing on the wall, so I’m curious what others think about the c-word. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5733 "2019-11-27T18:50:35Z")
Why would Trump care about being censured if it doesn’t cost him money and/or power? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5734 "2019-11-27T18:53:22Z")
Trump’s chief job is to anger Democrats. Having a majority of Democrats vote to send him an angry letter (AKA, a censure) is just a win for Trump. He’s already had a few resolutions against his actions passed (meaning that Republicans signed on), if I remember correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5735 "2019-11-27T19:02:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why would Trump care about being censured if it doesn’t cost him money and/or power? I don’t care what Trump cares about. I care what will help defeat him next year. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5736 "2019-11-27T19:02:31Z")
[_The New York Times_](https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1199744826314567680): > [@](#): > > Breaking News: As Rudy Giuliani waged a public campaign to unearth damaging information in Ukraine about President Trump’s political rivals, he privately pursued contracts with Ukrainian officials, documents show [Shimon Prokupecz](https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1199753132235988993), journalist: > [@](#): > > Why all this matters: 1/ “A federal criminal investigation into Mr. Giuliani is examining his role in the campaign to oust Marie L. Yovanovitch and whether he sought to make money in Ukraine at the same time he was working against her… > > “Prosecutors and F.B.I. agents in Manhattan are examining whether Mr. Giuliani was not just working for the president, but also doing the bidding of Ukrainians who wanted the ambassador removed for their own reasons, the people said.” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5737 "2019-11-27T19:02:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why would Trump care about being censured if it doesn’t cost him money and/or power? This. Censure might be meaningful to a normal, reasonable president. Trump is neither. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5738 "2019-11-27T19:08:51Z")
I didn’t realize we were motivated by what Donald Trump cares about. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5739 "2019-11-27T19:25:02Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I didn’t realize we were motivated by what Donald Trump cares about. We care about not throwing Brer Rabbit in that there briar patch. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5740 "2019-11-27T19:25:06Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I am really wondering what Bolton is hoping for. Here is my pulled out of my ass guess as to what Bolton’s motivation might be. I think Bolton is more of an ideologue than he is a partisan. I think he does what he does and takes the actions he takes based on the fact that he really believes that that is what is best for the country. I think he’s totally wrong and batshit insane, but I think he generally believes what he says. Along these lines I believe he realizes the Trump is very bad for the security of the United States, and would be very pleased to see Trump kicked out of office and run out of town on a rail. On the other hand he also realizes that he only has a career on the right side of the spectrum, and if he gets cast as a deep state never Trumper he’ll never be able to work again. So he wants to spill the beans, but he wants to be forced to do it. That way he can say, that he would never willingly betray the president, but once he was put under oath, he just had to tell the truth. Basically he’s like that sympathetic guard who releases the hero from his holding cell but asks the hero to hit him in the face a few times and tie him up so he doesn’t get in trouble. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=286) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=288)