# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 297
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5921 "2019-12-05T04:38:14Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Except that the courts haven’t ruled on whether they’re compelled to testify. I’m not saying I subscribe to Turley’s line of reasoning, but it at least dresses itself up like an argument that could be made. They shouldn’t have to rule. Trump himself has said that he would like for them to testify. Of course, he also said that he’d like to release his tax returns, talk to Mueller, and that Mexico would pay for the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5922 "2019-12-05T04:39:58Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > What kind of bull is this? I really gotta ox the question… It’s quite the scandal in Jersey. Someone call Woodward and Holstein. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5923 "2019-12-05T04:43:59Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > If so, I’d love to have a congressperson ask him to confirm that. “If a hypothetical president asked a foreign leader to assist in his election in exchange for something…would you consider that an impeachable offense?” Why not use a real gotcha? Ask him _“If President Obama had asked a foreign leader to provide him with information about a political opponent in an upcoming election, would you have considered that an impeachable offense?”_ Because you know if you make the question about Obama, Trump will be dumb enough to say it’s impeachable. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5924 "2019-12-05T05:03:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Why not use a real gotcha? Ask him _“If President Obama had asked a foreign leader to provide him with information about a political opponent in an upcoming election, would you have considered that an impeachable offense?”_ > > Because you know if you make the question about Obama, Trump will be dumb enough to say it’s impeachable. It wouldn’t help. They thought Obama \*was \* a foreign leader. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5925 "2019-12-05T06:03:18Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Except that the courts haven’t ruled on whether they’re compelled to testify. I’m not saying I subscribe to Turley’s line of reasoning, but it at least dresses itself up like an argument that could be made. It’s my understanding that the courts don’t need to rule. The House has the sole power of impeachment. They are holding an impeachment inquiry. Why is Turley saying we have to wait on the courts to decide if these people are required to answer subpoenas from the House in regards to an impeachment inquiry? I just don’t see the need for anyone to ratify their power. It is. It exists. There’s not a question. They can debate whether or not they should answer specific questions, but they have to show up. That’s just a plain fact. No court ruling needed. I agree that Turley at least spoke rationally. More than I can say for the folks on the Right. For example, did you know that in most of the states that elected the democratic Representatives, they also voted for Clinton in 2016? That dramatic point was made, with charts!, to prove that Democratic House members on the committee were elected by people who _gasp_ didn’t vote for Trump at all! It’s like it’s a conspiracy he uncovered! ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5926 "2019-12-05T08:03:22Z")
Kudos to Pamela Karlan for [owning up](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/473094-democratic-witness-apologizes-for-mentioning-barron-trump-in-impeachment) to her remark about Barron. I’ve heard more awful things said in public discourse, but I’ll still give a nod Pam’s way. And, she concluded, it would be nice for Trump to apologize for some of the things he’s done that’s wrong. Karlan added that she’d also like a well-endowed, sabre-toothed unicorn with flame-throwing MagnaFlow Exhaust System, four-foot-high spoiler and six-pack abs. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Boy I thought Jordan was a Donald Dick Sucker, but this guy Collins has him beat. Those two - along with Devin Psycho Eyes Nunez - would make a more appropriate three-headed hydra in that drawing that made the rounds a couple weeks back, with the heads of Schumer, Pelosi and (I think) Ginsberg replacing those of some fantasy film characters from a film I can’t remmeber, and can’t find right now on the internet. So on to Monday, and getting this goofy IG shit out of the way with. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5927 "2019-12-05T14:35:48Z")
Dumb move by Karlan, for the sake of a bad pun, to invoke pearl-clutching faux outrage over the privacy of a minor. By Gad she even caused the First Lady to sit up and take notice. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5928 "2019-12-05T14:39:08Z")
Some day there’ll be a Catholic school named for Melania: Our Lady Of Perpetual Victimhood. Give me a fucking break- she said Donald could name is son Barron but could not make him a Baron. How will Barron ever recover? Boo fucking hoo. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5929 "2019-12-05T14:41:51Z")
[https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/pelosi-proceed-articles-impeachment](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/pelosi-proceed-articles-impeachment) Pelosi directs House Judiciary committee to draft articles of impeachment ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5930 "2019-12-05T14:55:27Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Kudos to Pamela Karlan for [owning up](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/473094-democratic-witness-apologizes-for-mentioning-barron-trump-in-impeachment) to her remark about Barron. I’ve heard more awful things said in public discourse, but I’ll still give a nod Pam’s way. What was there for her to own to though? She didn’t insult the kid, merely mentioned that he exists and confirmed the fact that he can’t be given a title like he would be given in a monarchy. Melania’s outrage is disproportionate. Barron will be politicized whether she likes it or not and she’s got Rush Limbaugh to thank for that. But thank you Melania, for telegraphing yet another one of your family’s weaknesses. All this impeachment stuff is a risky gamble but frothing Trump into a heart attack would solve everything. Apropos of nothing, Barron is 13 now? Wow, he sure is growing up fast. I hope he didn’t get his definition of consent from his father. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5931 "2019-12-05T15:44:24Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > That attempt at humor was a flop for both of you… udderly charming ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5932 "2019-12-05T15:46:15Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > What was there for her to own to though? She didn’t insult the kid, merely mentioned that he exists and confirmed the fact that he can’t be given a title like he would be given in a monarchy. > > Melania’s outrage is disproportionate. Hell, I doubt Melania actually even wrote the tweet. It just reeks of political victimhood- nobody can look at what Karlan said and see it as a threat, and Trump “politicized” Barron when he took office. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5933 "2019-12-05T15:56:39Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’ll give Turley his due: he’s one of the few Republican defenders who’s actually thought out how to develop a cogent defense > [@](#): > > “When Congress decides that certain criminal conduct does not rise to the level of impeachable offenses, it is defining a permissible parameter for future presidential conduct.” > > Jonathan Turley, 1998, before his prefrontal cortex was wiped and reloaded From [here](https://twitter.com/edbott/status/1202267251853774850). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5934 "2019-12-05T16:02:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Some day there’ll be a Catholic school named for Melania: Our Lady Of Perpetual Victimhood. Give me a fucking break- she said Donald could name is son Barron but could not make him a Baron. How will Barron ever recover? Boo fucking hoo. This. [Josh Marshall](https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1202377011051876355): > [@](#): > > Perhaps better left unsaid but not remotely hostile or disrespectful. Be honest, Trumpism is a victim and grievance cult ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5935 "2019-12-05T18:01:23Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Apropos of nothing, Barron is 13 now? Wow, he sure is growing up fast. I hope he didn’t get his definition of consent from his father. Are bone spurs hereditary? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5936 "2019-12-05T18:49:28Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > If trump had asked the Ukrainians to divert a couple mill of that military aid into a certain numbered Swiss bank account, that would be undeniably impeachable conduct. This is worse because A.) Staying in the presidency does mean the continued ability to enrich himself at the public trough and may even be his only means of maintaining his liberty. B.) Undermining the free election process is a greater offense against the nation than simply lining one’s own pockets. Solid post. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5937 "2019-12-05T20:20:18Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Clinton operatives obviously picked Nunes pocket called Parnas, and then carefully replaced the phone to his pocket before he noticed it was gone, on each of those 4 separate occasions. Jeez, connect that dots sheeple! wouldn’t you know that some on fox news did claim that other people were using nunes phone during the “alleged” calls. apparently some are claiming that rudi used nunes phone to call parnes. yep, things are going far down the naked mole rat hole. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5938 "2019-12-05T20:34:49Z")
I sometimes wonder if Trump actually knows or accepts that he did anything wrong in regards to Ukraine. Like a spoiled and enabled child is constantly assured by his parents that anything bad is not his fault, that everyone else is just jealous or mean, or the system is rigged, or that the teacher obviously hates him, Trump is constantly assured by his lackeys that he’s omnipotent, bulletproof, and in the right and that the Democrats are jealous and mean, the system is rigged against him, and the press obviously hates him. The original coverup came from White House lawyers locking down the transcript and the Justice Department burying the whistleblower complaint, as far as I understand it, not from the President trying to cover up what he did. He even released the transcript against all advice and said, “Ah ha! See? Nothing here!” as if he really believed it. The continuing obstruction boils down to Trump saying the democrats are mean and unfair and he doesn’t have to play with them, with all of his (deeply implicated) advisors telling him that he’s absolutely right. The press doesn’t agree, but they obviously hate him and don’t matter. His rallies are filled with cheering fans, they matter. Would the other Republicans be supporting him if he was wrong? Obviously not, he thinks! Therefore he’s right! The way he keeps harping on “read the transcript!” and seems genuinely unable to comprehend how anyone who does could still see anything wrong leads me to think he believes his own press. He was outraged that any Republicans could even go so far as to say it was bad, but not impeachable. I think he actually feels that since he didn’t overtly _say_ that there was a quid pro quo, that there wasn’t. There was just diplomacy and deal-making. He’s still wrong, and guilty, and an idiot, but I’m starting to believe he’s deluded enough to honestly not see it. That doesn’t exonerate him, and certainly doesn’t explain why the nominally rational adults in the room continue to enable this spoiled child. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5939 "2019-12-05T20:39:07Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > I sometimes wonder if Trump actually knows or accepts that he did anything wrong in regards to Ukraine. > > Like a spoiled and enabled child is constantly assured by his parents that anything bad is not his fault, that everyone else is just jealous or mean, or the system is rigged, or that the teacher obviously hates him, Trump is constantly assured by his lackeys that he’s omnipotent, bulletproof, and in the right and that the Democrats are jealous and mean, the system is rigged against him, and the press obviously hates him. > > The original coverup came from White House lawyers locking down the transcript and the Justice Department burying the whistleblower complaint, as far as I understand it, not from the President trying to cover up what he did. He even released the transcript against all advice and said, “Ah ha! See? Nothing here!” as if he really believed it. The continuing obstruction boils down to Trump saying the democrats are mean and unfair and he doesn’t have to play with them, with all of his (deeply implicated) advisors telling him that he’s absolutely right. The press doesn’t agree, but they obviously hate him and don’t matter. His rallies are filled with cheering fans, they matter. Would the other Republicans be supporting him if he was wrong? Obviously not, he thinks! Therefore he’s right! > > The way he keeps harping on “read the transcript!” and seems genuinely unable to comprehend how anyone who does could still see anything wrong leads me to think he believes his own press. He was outraged that any Republicans could even go so far as to say it was bad, but not impeachable. I think he actually feels that since he didn’t overtly _say_ that there was a quid pro quo, that there wasn’t. There was just diplomacy and deal-making. > > He’s still wrong, and guilty, and an idiot, but I’m starting to believe he’s deluded enough to honestly not see it. That doesn’t exonerate him, and certainly doesn’t explain why the nominally rational adults in the room continue to enable this spoiled child. He is so used to throwing his ‘weight’ around like that in his business dealings - and never getting called on it - that he probably does not see it for what it is. Seperately - he is only concerned with his own ‘wins’ - that he cannot seperate what ‘he’ wants with what the country needs. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/5940 "2019-12-05T23:58:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Pelosi Directs Nadler, Schiff To Proceed With Articles Of Impeachment](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/pelosi-proceed-articles-impeachment) > > Pelosi directs House Judiciary committee to draft articles of impeachment So the hearings are over? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=296) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=298)