# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 304
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6061 "2019-12-11T03:59:49Z")
You never need burning hatred. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6062 "2019-12-11T04:14:46Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > You never need burning hatred. I think the soldiers who made this country what it is, the ones who crushed immoral insurrection of the South, the ones who crushed the Axis in Germany, would disagree. Sometimes, rage is good. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6063 "2019-12-11T04:31:42Z")
Yah well sometimes rage is all one has. I think that describes the opposition right now, and it is leading them to support a criminal regime. They appear to be enraged at ghosts though- not only Benghazi but Hillary and the D’s are responsible for the pizza sex ring and a whole host of other crimes which, to them, justify Any response- crimes for which nothing is ever proven and charges are never brought. Now, if their guy is formally impeached on what looks like inarguable grounds, why, change the subject! D’s are terrible! Put Nadler on the stand, because… never mind why!! And it is always “never mind why.” Notice that? We see why “blind” and “rage” so often go together. Smart is better, and it just so happens we have the smart people who can actually prove a point. Let’s leverage that. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6064 "2019-12-11T12:39:55Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Yah well sometimes rage is all one has. I think that describes the opposition right now, and it is leading them to support a criminal regime. They appear to be enraged at ghosts though- not only Benghazi but Hillary and the D’s are responsible for the pizza sex ring and a whole host of other crimes which, to them, justify Any response- crimes for which nothing is ever proven and charges are never brought. > > Now, if their guy is formally impeached on what looks like inarguable grounds, why, change the subject! D’s are terrible! Put Nadler on the stand, because… never mind why!! > > And it is always “never mind why.” Notice that? We see why “blind” and “rage” so often go together. Smart is better, and it just so happens we have the smart people who can actually prove a point. Let’s leverage that. It’s not rage that conservatives have; they have entitlement and a desire to establish supremacy using whatever means they have at their disposal. There will still probably be a form of ‘democracy’ if they manage to succeed in their political heist, but it won’t look anything like the democracy we now have. It will be one that rubber stamps and legitimizes their oligarchy and kleptocracy, and so will their justice system. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6065 "2019-12-11T14:47:44Z")
Ruh Roh: [https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/473875-top-zelensky-aide-refutes-sondland-testimony%3Famp](https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/473875-top-zelensky-aide-refutes-sondland-testimony%3famp) > [@](#): > > A top aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is refuting U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland’s testimony in the impeachment inquiry against President Trump. > > Sondland last month testified before a House committee that he told Zelensky’s aide that the U.S. would not resume foreign aid until the country announced two investigations into Trump political rivals; however, the aide, Andriy Yermak, told Time in an interview published Tuesday that the conversation never happened. And if Trump is an agent of Russia “the enemy of Ukraine”, why would a top aide to the Ukranian President lie to help Trump? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6066 "2019-12-11T14:58:15Z")
Quick! Send Rudy to get to the bottom of that, and have him report back to the AG! ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6067 "2019-12-11T14:59:22Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Ruh Roh: > [https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/473875-top-zelensky-aide-refutes-sondland-testimony%3Famp](https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/473875-top-zelensky-aide-refutes-sondland-testimony%3famp) > > And if Trump is an agent of Russia “the enemy of Ukraine”, why would a top aide to the Ukranian President lie to help Trump? Because he knows the Senate will not vote to impeach? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6068 "2019-12-11T15:01:41Z")
New conspiracy theory from Rudy – Adam Schiff has mutual fund investments with Franklin Templeton, and some of their funds have invested in Ukrainian companies. The horror! [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/giuliani-has-a-new-conspiracy-theory-to-mainline-into-gop-bloodstream](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/giuliani-has-a-new-conspiracy-theory-to-mainline-into-gop-bloodstream) ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6069 "2019-12-11T15:06:43Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Quick! Send Rudy to get to the bottom of that, and have him report back to the AG! Well from the same article no US officials are trying: > [@](#): > > Yermak told Time that no U.S. officials, including congressional committees overseeing the impeachment inquiry, have contacted him to seek testimony. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6070 "2019-12-11T15:13:03Z")
Impeachment was sealed the moment the Trump White House released the “transcript” in which Trump asks Ukraine to investigate Biden and tying that request to Congressionally approved military aid. That single piece of evidence was enough, and it remains enough – the WH’s (and Trump’s) own words. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6071 "2019-12-11T15:25:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It’s not rage that conservatives have; they have entitlement and a desire to establish supremacy using whatever means they have at their disposal. There will still probably be a form of ‘democracy’ if they manage to succeed in their political heist, but it won’t look anything like the democracy we now have. It will be one that rubber stamps and legitimizes their oligarchy and kleptocracy, and so will their justice system. Well, my view stems from recent conversations with a friend of mine with a lot of red state relatives- not very scientific, but his theory is that rural folks have been getting shit on for a long long time and are boiling over with resentment. People call 'em sister-fuckers and yokels and all of that kind of thing, and they’re provoked. Reading Mencken’s Monkey Trial essays for me anyway lends weight to be his theory- the author is right about evolution, sure, but he excoriates the population of Tennessee so ruthlessly that by the end, I had some sympathy for the Bible-beaters. One Can go too far. I dunno. I think they should really be mad at the arch-capitalists, they’re the ones sending the jobs overseas, wrecking unions and all that, and I don’t think they or a lot of things for that matter fit neatly into one of two “sides”. Whatever, that is what propaganda is for. I figure a clear-eyed approach can lead us to solutions to common problems and no group or region really has to be left out… but that runs into the current anti-intellectualism and we devolve into this dumb culture war between sides. I think that’s counter productive and in the way, as everyone is just people, they won’t always make sense. Anyway, people have a lot of problems and I just don’t think hating them will lead to progress. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6072 "2019-12-11T15:25:51Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Well from the same article no US officials are trying: Perhaps you noticed that the only testimpny given was by Americans. Fuck yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6073 "2019-12-11T15:57:29Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Why would they need to participate? They’ve already decided Trump is innocent, no matter what evidence MIGHT be presented. > > Party over Country, and a pox on their houses. Republicans \*used to be \*“Party over Country”. That was what I like to refer to as “the good old days”. Today, Republicans are “Russia over Party over Country”. They have (for some reason or other) sold themselves out entirely to a foreign power. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6074 "2019-12-11T16:08:33Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Quick! Send Rudy to get to the bottom of that, and have him report back to the AG! Can a passport be cancelled _in abstentia_ and, thus, the bearer not be allowed back in the country? I’m thinking the Phillip Nolan gambit, here. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6075 "2019-12-11T16:31:29Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Can a passport be cancelled _in abstentia_ and, thus, the bearer not be allowed back in the country? > > I’m thinking the Phillip Nolan gambit, here. [It happened to this Krakhozhian.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminal) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6076 "2019-12-11T17:14:33Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > People call 'em sister-fuckers and yokels and all of that kind of thing, and they’re provoked. Reading Mencken’s Monkey Trial essays for me anyway lends weight to be his theory- the author is right about evolution, sure, but he excoriates the population of Tennessee so ruthlessly that by the end, I had some sympathy for the Bible-beaters. One Can go too far. And urbanites are portrayed in some circles as uniformly anti-patriotic and not “Real Americans.” Doesn’t matter how many city-dwellers have joined the military in all the wars the U.S. has fought, city dwellers are all anti-American, anti-military, etc. Also, as I’ve said before, politicians don’t campaign and get elected in cities on a platform of separating from the countryside or not spending tax dollars on rural programs, but some politicians do campaign and get elected in the countryside on a platform of separating from the cities and not spending tax dollars on urban programs. [Article.](https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-life-illinois-state-secession-movement-0801-20190801-iesnu74ogvfjxfk35sn72lq7ya-story.html) [Another article.](https://www.newyorkupstate.com/news/2019/04/split-new-york-3-ways-assemblymans-petition-has-new-approach-to-carving-up-ny.html) ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6077 "2019-12-11T18:39:27Z")
I’d say make urban votes worth more than rural. We have had the just opposite for centuries, so there can’t be a moral objection to it. I think the experiment ended and failed miserably, when dt got elected. Fin de seicle. You can make the value of a vote based on the connections and proximity to fellow citizens, an algorithm basically about how central and proximate you are to society. The more populated your abode the more central you are. And I would add: the more your vote is worth to society. It’s clear that power in the hands of isolated angry people is not well placed. Are there objections? They could start to pay attention to the rest of the world, and maybe change their voting status by making good business decisions. Whose fault is it that they are miserable? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6078 "2019-12-11T18:44:11Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Can a passport be cancelled _in abstentia_ and, thus, the bearer not be allowed back in the country? Your passport is property of the State Department and can be revoked at any time. But under current US law, an American citizen or permanent resident can not lawfully be denied entry to the United States, whether or not they have a passport in hand. OTOH, the entrant bears the burden of proof regarding their citizenship. That can be potentially difficult depending on one’s circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6079 "2019-12-12T01:48:03Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Ruh Roh: > [https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/473875-top-zelensky-aide-refutes-sondland-testimony%3Famp](https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/473875-top-zelensky-aide-refutes-sondland-testimony%3famp) > > And if Trump is an agent of Russia “the enemy of Ukraine”, why would a top aide to the Ukranian President lie to help Trump? Because it has been shown time and time again, that kissing Trump’s ass is guaranteed to reap benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6080 "2019-12-12T02:53:39Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > OTOH, the entrant bears the burden of proof regarding their citizenship. That can be potentially difficult depending on one’s circumstances. Or skin color. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=303) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=305)