# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 306
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6101 "2019-12-12T21:56:58Z")
I figured the Hunter Biden using coke story would be used if Joe Biden was the nominee but I see it was already used today. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6102 "2019-12-12T22:07:59Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I’d say make urban votes worth more than rural. We have had the just opposite for centuries, so there can’t be a moral objection to it. I think the experiment ended and failed miserably, when dt got elected. Fin de seicle. > > You can make the value of a vote based on the connections and proximity to fellow citizens, an algorithm basically about how central and proximate you are to society. The more populated your abode the more central you are. And I would add: the more your vote is worth to society. It’s clear that power in the hands of isolated angry people is not well placed. > > Are there objections? They could start to pay attention to the rest of the world, and maybe change their voting status by making good business decisions. Whose fault is it that they are miserable? Or we could make votes of the people who sign the paychecks worth more than wage-earners, and their votes worth more than the unemployed or retired; votes of home owners worth more than renters; votes of people who have children under age 18 worth more, because they represent more than just themselves; votes of old people worth more than young people, because old people have been around longer; votes of young people worth more than old people because young people will be around for longer. Forget the fancy algorithms. Why don’t we all just admit that the idea of “equality” is a failure and that some of us deserve to be more equal than others. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6103 "2019-12-12T22:23:57Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > you have to stop the flow of propaganda reenforcing the ol’ US vs. Them mindset. That would mean no Fox News or MSNBC. Fuck this false equivalence. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6104 "2019-12-12T22:28:43Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I really think this impeachment is a giant waste of time and effort and political capital and it is a stupid, stupid, STUPID gamble by the Democrats - if they fail, and I believe they will, it’s going to make the Democrats collectively look weak, Trump will of course act and campaign as if he has been vindicated, the Republican voters will be energized, and he will be re-elected. > > What the Dems don’t realize is that these proceedings are giving a platform for Republicans to grandstand. Every time one of them speaks, they’re campaigning for Trump. Such concern. So much concern. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6105 "2019-12-12T22:53:59Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I really think this impeachment is a giant waste of time and effort and political capital and it is a stupid, stupid, STUPID gamble by the Democrats - if they fail, and I believe they will, it’s going to make the Democrats collectively look weak, Trump will of course act and campaign as if he has been vindicated, the Republican voters will be energized, and he will be re-elected. > > What the Dems don’t realize is that these proceedings are giving a platform for Republicans to grandstand. Every time one of them speaks, they’re campaigning for Trump. Since it appears all but certain that impeachment will not succeed in the Senate, it occurs to me that the Democrats ought to simply continue to hold hearings and facilitate deeper investigation into the president’s activities without ever actually fringing the issue to a floor vote. Everything he does will be held up to the light, as though the WH were made of the clearest polished beryl, and he will never obtain the least modicum of closure without removing himself from public life (and even then, maybe not so much). Wake him regret way moment of his besieged existence. with apologies to Vaclav Havel for plagiarism of _Largo Desolado_ ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6106 "2019-12-12T22:55:59Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Fuck this false equivalence. > > Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk Gawd. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6107 "2019-12-12T23:34:05Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Or we could make votes of the people who sign the paychecks worth more than wage-earners, and their votes worth more than the unemployed or retired; votes of home owners worth more than renters; votes of people who have children under age 18 worth more, because they represent more than just themselves; votes of old people worth more than young people, because old people have been around longer; votes of young people worth more than old people because young people will be around for longer. > > Forget the fancy algorithms. Why don’t we all just admit that the idea of “equality” is a failure and that some of us deserve to be more equal than others. You act like those aren’t true and happening already. How do you like that world? I am not giving up on equality. But we have undemocracy in the US because of the inequality of the votes. Other inequalities should not be so horrifying if we are already in it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6108 "2019-12-12T23:37:32Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Gawd. Thank you. Ha. No shit. I wonder where we would be without MSNBC keeping journalism and democracy against this onslaught of propoganda. We would have no need of pesky equivalencies. One totalized world. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6109 "2019-12-12T23:54:40Z")
I don’t know how you people can still watch these hearings. I had to stop about a week and a half ago because my rage at, and contempt for, the GOP were seriously affecting me. I was genuinely wishing that bad things befall these people (and think I still am). Is anyone else starting to feel consumed by rage? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6110 "2019-12-13T00:16:07Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I figured the Hunter Biden using coke story would be used if Joe Biden was the nominee but I see it was already used today. Sometimes I think it might be better if Dems let Donald trash Sleepy Joe (which he’ll do relentlessly because if nothing else he can read a poll) right up until the convention and then spring a surprise nominee on him (and us). Trump’s bullying and belittlement is amazingly effective with smaller minds and it might be better for Dems if they can minimize the time he can spend doing it to the ultimate opponent. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6111 "2019-12-13T01:42:39Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Is anyone else starting to feel consumed by rage? I am and I’m not even American. I realize now that I took ‘progress’ for granted. I feel like I’m watching my house burning down. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6112 "2019-12-13T01:44:29Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You act like those aren’t true and happening already. How do you like that world? > > I am not giving up on equality. But we have undemocracy in the US because of the inequality of the votes. Other inequalities should not be so horrifying if we are already in it. Your idea of weighting votes because of something your perceive as connectedness vs. isolation screams not only of inequality, but of entitlement. You want equality? Go out and make sure people in underrepresented areas are registered to vote. Be an election judge so you can make sure the election in your neighborhood is conducted fairly. In other words, do something to further the democracy you think we’ve lost, instead of arguing that people who don’t live in cities should lose their vote. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6113 "2019-12-13T01:48:53Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > I don’t know how you people can still watch these hearings. I had to stop about a week and a half ago because my rage at, and contempt for, the GOP were seriously affecting me. I was genuinely wishing that bad things befall these people (and think I still am). Is anyone else starting to feel consumed by rage? I hear ya. I just cannot stomach hearing a Republican any more. The constant gaslighting makes my brain hurt. If anyone with a higher tolerance followed today’s hearings, please share. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6114 "2019-12-13T01:51:16Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Ha. No shit. I wonder where we would be without MSNBC keeping journalism and democracy against this onslaught of propoganda. We would have no need of pesky equivalencies. One totalized world. Agreed on the false equivalency. MSNBC is completely biased, but at least they’re grounded in a fact-based universe. On the other hand, I think 24 hour news networks have been the death of journalism, which in turn is killing democracy. I’d like them all swept off the airwaves and we return to a 30 minute nightly broadcast news show. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6115 "2019-12-13T01:52:27Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Since it appears all but certain that impeachment will not succeed in the Senate, it occurs to me that the Democrats ought to simply continue to hold hearings and facilitate deeper investigation into the president’s activities without ever actually fringing the issue to a floor vote. … There’s also the theory that the House should vote, but should delay sending the Articles to the Senate–perhaps until all witnesses called (Mulvaney, Pompeo, Bolton etc.) actually testify: > [@](#): > > John Dean said something yesterday on CNN … he said that the House could indeed vote on the articles of impeachment in the next few weeks----but then hold off on sending them to the Senate. Hold off for as many months as seems effective to them. And there would be nothing that Mitch McConnell could do about it—nothing at all. > That would withhold from Trump his Acquittal/Exoneration/Full-Declaration-of-Innocence. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22013011&postcount=5966](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22013011&postcount=5966) Dean on Twitter: > [@](#): > > Sending out again: Let’s impeach him now and NOT send it to the Senate rather keep investigating in the House, and add such supplemental articles as needed! Just let it hang over his head. If the worst happens and he is re-elected, send it to the Senate. But keep investigating!! > 11:21 AM · Dec 8, 2019·Twitter for iPhone [https://twitter.com/JohnWDean/status/1203711116238450688](https://twitter.com/JohnWDean/status/1203711116238450688) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6116 "2019-12-13T01:54:51Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > I don’t know how you people can still watch these hearings. I had to stop about a week and a half ago because my rage at, and contempt for, the GOP were seriously affecting me. I was genuinely wishing that bad things befall these people (and think I still am). Is anyone else starting to feel consumed by rage? It _is_ depressing to listen to people who never speak one single word in good faith. It’s probably like listening to a show made up of nothing but rants by angry used-car salesmen. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6117 "2019-12-13T02:04:42Z")
So - I keep seeing articles where Trump’s attorneys and McConnel are in direct talks and strategizing on the trial portion. [McConnell and top White House lawyer agree to close coordination, but not final strategy, on impeachment trial](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/impeachment-inquiry-12-12-2019/h_9cd383133c8cf89f33961626b7df8bd6) I don’t get how that is proper in any sense of the word - If the defense attorney regularly met and strategized with the Jury Foreman (or any member of the jury) - that would be ‘Jury tampering’ and the lawyer tossed - same would be true if it were the prosecuting attorney. Setting up schedules, etc - sure - but??? I realize this is par for the course for this group. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6118 "2019-12-13T02:28:37Z")
It’s a rare example of a show trial where an acquittal is the predetermined outcome. Seriously, who was expecting anything else? Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6119 "2019-12-13T03:15:30Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Agreed on the false equivalency. MSNBC is completely biased, but at least they’re grounded in a fact-based universe. > > On the other hand, I think 24 hour news networks have been the death of journalism, which in turn is killing democracy. I’d like them all swept off the airwaves and we return to a 30 minute nightly broadcast news show. MSNBC came into existence to counter the bias and propaganda on Fox. And they aren’t even countering it with bias. They are countering it with pretty fair readings on most things, with a lot of both sides stuff. Many people even think they are becoming republican. Any framing that ignores this is bats. I agree on the news. It started with OJ. I have family who just should not be enfranchised in todays world. We are really missing that fairness doctrine. Looking back it was kind of quaint and a little innocent. Nice times… ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6120 "2019-12-13T03:17:37Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I hear ya. I just cannot stomach hearing a Republican any more. The constant gaslighting makes my brain hurt. > > If anyone with a higher tolerance followed today’s hearings, please share. I watched about six hours of it this morning and afternoon. Your recap: Democrat: Trump solicited foreign aid in the upcoming US election and used congressionally approved taxpayer dollars as leverage. Republican: Hunter Biden, though. Democrat: Trump obstructed Congress by putting out a blanket mandate that no one should testify in the inquiry. Republican: Unfair process! Secret basement illuminati crystals aliens conspiracy! _a bit of foaming at the mouth_ Democrat: Trump shows a clear pattern of abuses of office, and here is a list and references and testimony. Republican: I yield the rest of my time to Jim Jordan. Jim Jordan: Becky told Andrew that Mikey said he heard Timmy say that Julie overheard Karen telling Timmy that Mikey likes Life cereal. Rinse, repeat. Me: Are you SURE murder is illegal? Like all the time? Really? Damn. And that is a verbatim, word for word transcript, every letter, every comma.\* And as far as I know, it’s still going on at this very moment. \*Not a verbatim transcript. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=305) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=307)