# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 309
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6161 "2019-12-13T19:02:10Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’d agree that they have fair readings that in and of themselves often, but not always, are bias-free. > > I’ve been watching MSNBC since its inception, and I am damn glad it exists to counterbalance Fox News and the like. But they engage in propaganda of their own. This doesn’t even scratch the surface, but how many times a night do you see a full-on debate between two politicians from both sides of the aisle? Oh, they have Republicans on all the time, but not those who are willing to _defend_ Republicans. People like Bill Kristol and Steve Schmidt, who are willing to call out Trump and Company for what they are. One might make the argument that there is no defense of the Republican party as it exists today, and for the most part, I would be one of them. But if you cut politicians out entirely, that leaves the people on MSNBC’s shows free reign to _say whatever they please_, knowing that there will be no one there to rebut them. > > The point is, nothing is truly “both sides” when you have politicians (as opposed to just pundits) from only one of those sides. I just had to add this: Ari Melber has had many republican pols as well as trump supporters who are either indicted or witnesses to russia or ukraine stuff. But you would rather see him present a side vs side debate, in todays environment. For me I don’t think they can ethically present that. They know it’s trolling and lies. And then, if you would say that the failure to present such a debate represents bias, I just don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6162 "2019-12-13T19:07:33Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I would bet that Trump’s vote is maxxed out, where it was in 2016, and that the Democrats could do better. Time will tell, certainly. The Democrats couldn’t do any worse than they did in 2016, when they literally nominate the one person on America that Trump could beat. Any of the top 10 of the current crop will beat Trump like a borrowed mule. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6163 "2019-12-13T19:11:26Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I won’t hold MSNBC responsible for a failure to have intelligent worthy republicans on defending the potus. You seem to imply they don’t want to have them on. The hosts I see would give up a finger to have them on for real answers. But they are trolling. How do you deal with trolls? Trolling is a big deal here, right? So we all have that in common here. Why is MSNBC biased for being in the position of having to defend itself from trolls? DO you watch CNN? They have had a troll problem by trying to accomodate bad actors and liars. > > “Bias” to me is stealthy, obscure, and disingenuous. I don’t see it in MSNBC. There is a lot of it around for good comparative examples too. I have no idea if they want to have them (politicians from the other side) on. Nor do I have any idea if they ask to have them on, and they refuse. I am just saying that they do not have them on, and therefore you can’t make the argument that MSNBC \*fully \*covers both sides. I do watch CNN. Two examples in contrast to MSNBC: Rick Santorum is on quite a bit, and he _always_ argues the Republican side. Ditto, for the most part Scott Jennings, although he occasionally allows for the Reps doing something stupid. I could give other examples. These are _regular_ guests on CNN. MSNBC does not do this. But in that I was talking mainly about politicians, let me say that as for current politicians, CNN is also similar to MSNBC. Don Lemon _never_ has anyone on his show to offer the Republican viewpoint. Cuomo does, but not enough to be fair to both sides. I don’t typically watch Cooper or the 7 o’clock show, so no comment there. As for you not seeing bias on MSNBC, what can I say, we disagree. I feel like maybe I’m hijacking, so I’ll give you the last word. This has nothing specific to do with impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6164 "2019-12-13T19:16:20Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I would bet that Trump’s vote is maxxed out, where it was in 2016, and that the Democrats could do better. Time will tell, certainly. It’s the Democrats’ election to lose. As history has shown. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6165 "2019-12-13T19:31:11Z")
I really disagree with those who characterize what MSNBC is doing as spreading left wing propaganda. Some programs have a left wing bias, and that’s ok. If you watch them much, you quickly realize it’s right wing to left wing as the day progresses. I try to let as little as possible get between me and the facts. I read the damn Mueller report. I read the transcripts of court proceedings/legal opinions as often as possible. I watch Congressional proceedings on CSPAN, don’t need any commentary to help me form my opinions based on the facts as I can see them for myself. I keep track of dozens of news sources online such as Reuters, AP, McClatchy, BBC, etc. For cable news, MSNBC tracks closest to the actual data, by a mile. I stopped watching CNN because their “both sides”-ism was so skewed to the right. They’re also terrible for omitting facts that make what Trump Republicans are doing seem more reasonable than it is. Fox “News”? It’s just the ugliest of jokes, to anyone who’s really paying attention. MSNBC has had the courage to repudiate the complete lunacy of Trump Republicans and stand against being yet another mouthpiece to spout their lying rhetoric. I applaud them for that. They regularly host sane Republicans for their perspectives. Chuck Todd gives even the bat shit ones quite a lot of latitude, and Joe Scarborough who hosts his morning show for 3 hours each day remains a registered Republican. To say they don’t give the opposition a voice is simply uninformed. I will never forgive Steve Schmidt for his role in bringing us Sarah Palin, and in general I am not a fan of Republican strategists. But Schmidt is a valued regular on Nicole Wallace’s daily program. She too is a former Republican and Bush 2.0 Administration White House official. Last night, I thoroughly enjoyed Republican strategist Rick Wilson’s (author of “Everything Trump Touches Dies”) opinion of of Moscow Mitch’s approach to the Senate trial, trying to make it all go away as fast as possible. Wilson said that there is more to come re Ukraine. Then he said something to the effect of, as with all things Trump, the Ukraine debacle is just the [tip of the fecal iceberg](https://www.msnbc.com/11th-hour/watch/rick-wilson-gop-trying-to-distract-from-the-fact-trump-committed-crimes-75006021813), with only the sticky top presently revealed. It was a classic moment, well worth the 3 1/2 minutes to watch. No one should take their news from any one source. Read everything you can. But of the 3 big cable news networks, MSNBC is the most intellectually honest. I get sick of seeing people smear them as “left wing propaganda” when it’s obvious they never watch it and have no idea what they’re talking about. Agree this is a hijack and I won’t say anything more on the subject in this thread, but had to get it off my chest. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6166 "2019-12-13T19:32:20Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > The Democrats couldn’t do any worse than they did in 2016, when they literally nominate the one person on America that Trump could beat. Any of the top 10 of the current crop will beat Trump like a borrowed mule. yes they can do worse, for example if Sanders wins the nomination. Trump will make him out to be the best friend of Marx, Stalin and Lenin. ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6167 "2019-12-13T19:42:35Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > The Democrats couldn’t do any worse than they did in 2016, when they literally nominate the one person on America that Trump could beat. Any of the top 10 of the current crop will beat Trump like a borrowed mule. I’m going to hold off on feel-good projections until we get closer to the election. Since 2016 it’s been obvious that nobody has a clue as to how it will play out. The ideal scenario is that Pence loses in a landslide, but I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6168 "2019-12-13T19:43:55Z")
Trump’s never heard of those guys…he’ll try to tie Sanders to Groucho Marx and John Lennon. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6169 "2019-12-13T19:51:12Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I have no idea if they want to have them (politicians from the other side) on. Nor do I have any idea if they ask to have them on, and they refuse. I am just saying that they do not have them on, and therefore you can’t make the argument that MSNBC \*fully \*covers both sides. > > I do watch CNN. Two examples in contrast to MSNBC: Rick Santorum is on quite a bit, and he _always_ argues the Republican side. Ditto, for the most part Scott Jennings, although he occasionally allows for the Reps doing something stupid. I could give other examples. These are _regular_ guests on CNN. MSNBC does not do this. > > But in that I was talking mainly about politicians, let me say that as for current politicians, CNN is also similar to MSNBC. Don Lemon _never_ has anyone on his show to offer the Republican viewpoint. Cuomo does, but not enough to be fair to both sides. I don’t typically watch Cooper or the 7 o’clock show, so no comment there. > > As for you not seeing bias on MSNBC, what can I say, we disagree. > > I feel like maybe I’m hijacking, so I’ll give you the last word. This has nothing specific to do with impeachment. What is the other side? You don’t know what it is, but if it’s not there you know there is bias? How do you know it’s not there when you don’t know what it is? How long have you been watching Lemon? He has had scads of those discussions. I think he got worn out, and disgusted. I have seen it on his face in the last month. Trolls. You can’t say there is a lack of coverage of this stuff: Christ, yesterday there was 14 hours of it solid, from the govt, on national tv. Facts, and then: Insanity and talking past facts. Now on the very next day, here you are saying that if you don’t have that on your network you just aren’t doing objective journalism? I think that if MSNBC could make an ethical debate happen they would. I don’t blame them if they can’t do it. It’s a fools errand. Cuomo: I never used to like him but he is doing a great job lately. When did you watch him? In the last 2 weeks he has had lots of republicans on, half the time to correct something they said somewhere else. He is not letting them flame and gaslight. Is that the problem for you, that they can’t just flame and flame endlessly? Journalism with a pov has a long history and shouldn’t be called biased just for that reason. “Bias” is not usually attached to those outlets who are open about their identity. Fox for instance has a public identity, but also unspoken agendas, basically white identity. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6170 "2019-12-13T20:02:37Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > What is the other side? You don’t know what it is, but if it’s not there you know there is bias? How do you know it’s not there when you don’t know what it is? Very quickly, let me just clarify, just in case others do reply: I mean Republicans when I say the “other side”, that’s all. I should have made that clear. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6171 "2019-12-13T20:12:17Z")
Right now the Republicans are eagerly spreading Russian propaganda and disinformation about Ukraine and 2016. Responsible press should not be a party to that. Our intelligence services are united about what happened and united in calling the Ukraine conspiracy theory for what it is. Advancing a foreign power’s interests over America’s. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6172 "2019-12-13T20:19:02Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > the only way Trump loses is if the Dems have a much higher turnout than 2016. This impeachment is going to give Trump a bigger turnout of his base. It’s great for him to get people ticked off and vote for him. Why won’t GOP obstructionism galvanize Dems instead? Are we incapable of recognizing a fuck job when we see one? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6173 "2019-12-13T20:22:12Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Why won’t GOP obstructionism galvanize Dems instead? Are we incapable of recognizing a fuck job when we see one? The mid terms in 2018 showed that they do. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6174 "2019-12-13T20:37:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > **the only way Trump loses is if the Dems have a much higher turnout than 2016**. This impeachment is going to give Trump a bigger turnout of his base. It’s great for him to get people ticked off and vote for him. Does something make you think they won’t have a bigger turnout? In 2018, Republicans had record turnout for the mid-terms. And Dems blew them out of the water with their own turnout. You saw what happened there with the flipping of the House. Even in mid-mid-year elections such as in 2019, Dem enthusiasm and turnout is extraordinarily high. Note that Virginia turned blue and Kentucky elected a not-chosen-by-Trump governor. Nothing Republicans have done in the 3+ years of Trump has garnered greater support for Trump in 2020. Opposition remains strong and very, very fired up. If Trump wins in 2020, it will be because there was cheating. Look for: 1. Tulsi Gabbard to run a third party independent campaign, funded and aided in social media by Russia. She is very much the Jill Stein of 2020. 2. Russia to continue to amp up and exploit the deep wound via social media between Clinton/Biden supporters and Sanders supporters. Easy peasy, from what I’ve seen around this board. 3. They’re pushing their cable news network, RT, really hard right now, too. If you (the royal you) tune in, know you are watching pure Russian propaganda. 4. Relentless swift-boating of Biden. Same play book as Hillary. 5. Results of the Barr “investigation” into Biden/Ukraine dropped into the narrative to hit the public this summer. 6. Non-stop negative political ads running in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Arizona and North Carolina. 7. Endless Fox “News” Hannity insanity, aided by Breitbart, InfoWars, etc. It is going to be so ugly. OTOH, if there was one election recently held that Vlad the Puppetmaster would have liked to sabotage and prevail in its outcome, it was the one in Ukraine – where Zelenskyy supporters garnered 73% of the vote. We _can_ fight against this. The predictions are that voter turnout for 2020 will be the highest in 100 years. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6175 "2019-12-13T20:42:41Z")
Dem turnout will be higher than 2016 but not sure it will be enough to beat a higher GOP turnout due to impeachment getting GOP people ticked off. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6176 "2019-12-13T20:48:39Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > MSNBC has had the courage to repudiate the complete lunacy of Trump Republicans and stand against being yet another mouthpiece to spout their lying rhetoric. I applaud them for that. They regularly host sane Republicans for their perspectives. Chuck Todd gives even the bat shit ones quite a lot of latitude, and Joe Scarborough who hosts his morning show for 3 hours each day remains a registered Republican. To say they don’t give the opposition a voice is simply uninformed. Would it be cheating if I said I gave **drad dog** the last word, but not you, and therefore I can break my pledge? Please indulge me: 🙂 First off, I always forget Chuck Todd has a 5 pm show on MSNBC, but do watch him on Meet the Press, and yes, he has \*politicians \*on from all sides, all the time. Kudos to him. Prime time MSNBC does not do this. That was the point. Now, if you define “opposition” as anyone who is now a Republican not in office, then your last statement is true. If you define it to include current Republicans politicians, it is then only partly true. And what the hell, if you want to respond, I’ll answer and I don’t think anyone would mind. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6177 "2019-12-13T21:46:25Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’d agree that they have fair readings that in and of themselves often, but not always, are bias-free. > > I’ve been watching MSNBC since its inception, and I am damn glad it exists to counterbalance Fox News and the like. But they engage in propaganda of their own. This doesn’t even scratch the surface, but how many times a night do you see a full-on debate between two politicians from both sides of the aisle? Oh, they have Republicans on all the time, but not those who are willing to _defend_ Republicans. People like Bill Kristol and Steve Schmidt, who are willing to call out Trump and Company for what they are. One might make the argument that there is no defense of the Republican party as it exists today, and for the most part, I would be one of them. But if you cut politicians out entirely, that leaves the people on MSNBC’s shows free reign to _say whatever they please_, knowing that there will be no one there to rebut them. > > The point is, nothing is truly “both sides” when you have politicians (as opposed to just pundits) from only one of those sides. I already said, fuck this false equivalence. There’s a big difference between bias and propagating falsehoods. Nobody cares about bias, but everyone should care when one network is flat-out pedaling bullshit while the other one actually exists in a fact-based universe, as someone else earlier in the thread mentioned. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6178 "2019-12-13T21:50:52Z")
Did anyone stay up and see the Doug Collins post-gavel rant, some time around midnight? The whole thing illustrates exactly the problem with all the Republicans from yesterday: an inability to think logically. You see, the whole thing, if you listen to Collins, is now completely illegitimate because Nadler (gasp!) decided to postpone the vote until this morning. Collins doesn’t like the fact that Nadler did this so the vote could be shown on TV when more Americans would be watching. Does this not suggest that the imbecilic Collins has something to hide, or will have something to be ashamed of when he is shown voting “no” on the articles in front of the now wide awake populace? Furthermore, if the hearings became illegitimate \*after \*Nadler pulled his admittedly lame stunt without informing the other side, does this not also suggest that Collins indeed thinks the Dems had some legitimacy before it happened? What a maroon. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6179 "2019-12-13T21:51:14Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Very quickly, let me just clarify, just in case others do reply: I mean Republicans when I say the “other side”, that’s all. I should have made that clear. By “other side” I didn’t mean “who” they were, on their party ID. I was referring to the arguments that would be on offer. What is the “other side” that you feel is missing in the argument? You are saying that without it we can’t be fair. The question is “what” is it, not “who” is it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6180 "2019-12-13T21:55:38Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Why won’t GOP obstructionism galvanize Dems instead? Are we incapable of recognizing a fuck job when we see one? It worked in the mid terms and in the elections two months ago. Chicken littles and concern trolls seem to ignore that. They also ignore the fact that those off presidential year elections have traditionally not drawn Democratic voters. Obviously one that needs to be palpably concerned about the influence of foreign interests in 2020. But even with Trump in charge of the White House, it’s a lot more visible now then it was in 2016. A lot more people will be paying attention. People whine that there aren’t protests in the street. The simple fact is that those protests were in the ballot boxes in 2016, without which the house would still be under Republican control and none of this would even be happening. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=308) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=310)