# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/601 "2019-09-26T16:02:24Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Weird… What’s this? > > New poll: Majority of Americans against impeachment and removal of Trump > > [Impeachment: Poll shows most Americans don't want Trump removed](https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2438970001) Did you even read the fucking article? That poll was conducted between 9/19 and 9/23 days before Polosi announced the inquiry an OK. Way to bring your A-game :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/602 "2019-09-26T16:07:41Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > A little while back \*\*Richard Parker \*\*[started a thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=825959) about what it would take to support impeachment. My thought then was that direct personal involvement was necessary for impeachment. If the reports are accurate as described (and it’s difficult for me to follow all of the developments so quickly), then I would support impeachment and removal. Thank you for sharing! That is very heartening. If any Doper is “in the middle” on Trump, based on what I can tell, it’s you. If we can extrapolate **Bone** to all of America, then we’ll be just fine. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/603 "2019-09-26T16:10:55Z")
My overall take on all this is that it is a huge deal and that the cynics and pessimists are wrong. This is far worse than anything Trump has been caught red-handed doing before. I imagine _most_ of the people who have defended him up to now will continue doing so, but surely _some_ will find this the final straw. And Trump has no political margin for error. If only another 5-10% of Americans join the group who are already solidly against him, a massive Democratic landslide in 2020 is certain. And if Trump can’t be re-elected, that dramatically changes the calculus for Senate Republicans. I don’t think it’s at all implausible that enough of them will vote to remove him from office. At the very least, I think it’s highly likely that the number of Republicans voting to convict will be large enough to prevent the impeachment from being dismissed as “partisan”. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/604 "2019-09-26T16:11:31Z")
Sorry if this isn’t the appropriate thread, but can someone point me to what they think is the most succinct analysis of what (purportedly) happened and the steps that are being taken? It really can be a challenge to fight through the partisan folk on both side to get an objective view. And so many of the “facts” seem to be of the weaselly, likely unethical, but criminal? sort. Also, anyone know of a clear discussion of what different “rules” apply in an impeachment, compared to all of the various previous hearings? My main focus is on him NOT getting another term and - hopefully - Repubs losing the Senate majority. I’m trying to figure out what benefits the impeachment inquiry provides in those efforts. It would take quite a bit for someone to detest Trump more than I, but I have to admit that there has been a bit of fatigue. I’ve long thought Trump embarrassing, dishonest, and incompetent, and suspect he is seeking to enrich himself through his office. Basically a scummy individual. But none of that is news. And none of that apparently matters to his true-believers or the Republicans in Congress. It is not readily obvious to me why THIS action - as opposed to so many others - is the one that merits impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/605 "2019-09-26T16:15:21Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Sorry if this isn’t the appropriate thread, but can someone point me to what they think is the most succinct analysis of what (purportedly) happened and the steps that are being taken? It really can be a challenge to fight through the partisan folk on both side to get an objective view. And so many of the “facts” seem to be of the weaselly, likely unethical, but criminal? sort. > > Also, anyone know of a clear discussion of what different “rules” apply in an impeachment, compared to all of the various previous hearings? My main focus is on him NOT getting another term and - hopefully - Repubs losing the Senate majority. I’m trying to figure out what benefits the impeachment inquiry provides in those efforts. > > It would take quite a bit for someone to detest Trump more than I, but I have to admit that there has been a bit of fatigue. I’ve long thought Trump embarrassing, dishonest, and incompetent, and suspect he is seeking to enrich himself through his office. Basically a scummy individual. But none of that is news. And none of that apparently matters to his true-believers or the Republicans in Congress. > > It is not readily obvious to me why THIS action - as opposed to so many others - is the one that merits impeachment. My post below quotes a good summation: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > More on the whistleblower complaint: > > "There was immediate follow-up from U.S. officials after Trump’s call with Zelensky. After the July 26 call, several U.S. officials (U.S. Special Representative for Ukraine Negotiations Kurt Volcker and U.S. Ambassador to the EU Gordan Sondland) met with Zelensky and other Ukrainian political officials where, according to the complaint, they reportedly gave advice about how to “navigate” Trump’s requests. > > Giuliani also conducted extensive follow-up. On August 2, Giuliani met with one of Zelensky’s advisers in Madrid, in what the whistleblower said was characterized as “direct follow-up” to Trump’s call about the “cases” they talked about. The whistleblower also said that they were told by U.S. officials that Giuliani privately reached out to a number of other Zelensky advisors. > > Ukrainian leadership believed that a call with Trump was contingent on being willing to “play ball” on Giuliani’s requests for investigations. Giuliani had been encouraging Ukrainian officials for months to pursue investigations into alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election and the Bidens. According to the whistleblower, state department officials spoke to Giuliani to “contain the damage” to national security, but Ukrainian leadership was “led to believe” that a call with Trump depended on willingness to “play ball” on the issues that Giuliani was pushing." > > From here: [What Went Down In Maguire’s Whistleblower Testimony | FiveThirtyEight](https://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/dni-whistleblower-testimony/) I think this one stands out because it was relatively recent, is relatively straight forward, and clearly shows action (i.e. pressure) meant to gain direct domestic political advantage (i.e. harm a rival) due to improper usage of foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/606 "2019-09-26T16:15:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Nunes was ineffective and he knew it. > [@](#): > > Nunes, who is currently involved in a lawsuit with a fictional cow, moved on to other questions. From [here](https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/devin-nuness-attempt-to-defend-trump-backfires-after-presidents-acting-intel-chief-slaps-down-his-question/). ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/607 "2019-09-26T16:16:02Z")
In this case he asked a foreign leader to investigate an American to his political advantage over his duty to uphold his oath to the office. There’s the short version. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/608 "2019-09-26T16:22:36Z")
I guess we’ve found the new talking points for today: - The public does not want impeachment hearings (points to week old poll) - It’s not technically Treason! ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/609 "2019-09-26T16:23:58Z")
Adam Schiff is terrific. Listen to as much of today’s hearing as you can, but certainly his summary at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/610 "2019-09-26T16:24:28Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Also, one is from several days ago. The other includes respondents yesterday and today. When I went to take a look at the poll itself, I can’t find it on [Quinnpiac’s website](https://poll.qu.edu/) now does the article actually link to the poll. For all I know, they interviewed 5 republicans and 50 democrats. Anyone have a link to the actual poll? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/611 "2019-09-26T16:25:55Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > In this case he asked a foreign leader to investigate an American to his political advantage over his duty to uphold his oath to the office. There’s the short version. … And did so while dangling hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid that Congress had approved, and Trump had ordered withheld for no clear reason… (slightly longer version) … And the American Trump wanted investigated is a family member of an important political rival. (full version) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/612 "2019-09-26T16:27:12Z")
[Specifics of the Nunes cow suit,](https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article235016882.html) since we’re all wondering. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/613 "2019-09-26T16:38:48Z")
I realize things are moving fast with the release of the whistle blower complaint, but I think it’s interesting to note, as highlighted in this article, that in order for Congress to release the $250 million the Pentagon had to sign off on it specifically to certify that they felt Ukraine **was doing enough** to combat corruption. So the Pentagon thought enough was being done to release the funds but for _whatever reason_ Trump disagreed. This article also notes that the other excuse Trump is using for having held back the funds, that European allies were not doing enough to support Ukraine, is suspect as well. Eight European embassies have told NPR that they received no requests from the Trump administration to up their aid, and they are also claiming that Trump is minimizing Europe’s contributions, which are actually pretty close to those from the US. > **[Pentagon Letter Undercuts Trump Assertion On Delaying Aid To Ukraine Over...](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764453663/pentagon-letter-undercuts-trump-assertion-on-delaying-aid-to-ukraine-over-corrup)** > > A letter sent to four congressional committees in May and obtained by NPR says officials have "certified that the Government of Ukraine has taken substantial actions" to address corruption. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/614 "2019-09-26T16:39:17Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What is far \*more \*plausible is that Putin did it because he knew he could get away with it, having the US President (and therefore NATO) under his control. He, and his many genuine supporters, have chafed under the geographic restrictions of modern Russia following the end of the USSR, and he has the same imperial impulses as so many other ethnically-motivated dictators in history to get all of “his” people under his control. He wants all Russians to be in Russia the same way an earlier dictator wanted all Germans to be in Germany, and for pretty much the same reasons. I find it highly unlikely that Putin has Trump under his control, being that I haven’t seen any good (obviously IMHO) evidence to support this. My opinion about Trump and dictators comes down to Trump’s aversion to confrontation. Now, as president, if there is any group of people that should be confronted more than dictators, I don’t know what group that is. So if you insist that, say, Kim Jong-un is a good person or words to that effect, you no longer need to confront him. The threat is nullified. But getting back to the thread, I saw the 10:30 to 11:00 segment. My first impression of Maguire is that he was simply trying to do his job as he interpreted it. But the one troubling thing is as others have pointed out, and that is going to the WH for advice, being that of course the complaint was directed there. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/615 "2019-09-26T16:41:39Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I guess we’ve found the new talking points for today: > > - The public does not want impeachment hearings (points to week old poll) > - It’s not technically Treason! “Shut up its not treason you illiterate boob” has been a talking point for 2 years now ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/616 "2019-09-26T16:44:38Z")
Way too early to be certain about this, but IMO the way things have played out over the last few days have vindicated Speaker Pelosi’s approach to impeachment and related issues. But we’ll see. I still won’t make any predictions. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/617 "2019-09-26T16:45:18Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I’m sorry, I should have been more clear about my comment re executive privilege. > > Schiff was questioning Maguire about what caused him to disregard the very clear “shall” language of the law that compels him to bring the whistleblower’s complaint to the Intelligence Committee. Maguire responded that he saw issues of “executive privilege” that he wasn’t authorized to waive, and so kicked it over to the White House OLC for a determination – basically permitting the wrongdoers to police themselves. > > Of course what is not being said is that executive privilege asserted for a corrupt purpose is not a valid use of the privilege. Mr. Maguire surely knew that before rabbiting over to the White House OLC. Indeed; that is actually quoted in the whistleblower complaint on page 2, footnote 1. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/618 "2019-09-26T16:47:15Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Weird… What’s this? > > New poll: Majority of Americans against impeachment and removal of Trump > > [Impeachment: Poll shows most Americans don't want Trump removed](https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2438970001) Trump supporters should just stop making references to popular opinion and Trump. He came up three million votes shy of Clinton and has had a majority of the country against him since inauguration. Defending Trump with polling data is like saying, “I never touch diet sodas, that stuff will kill you!” while inhaling spray paint. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/619 "2019-09-26T16:49:49Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > When I went to take a look at the poll itself, I can’t find it on [Quinnpiac’s website](https://poll.qu.edu/) now does the article actually link to the poll. For all I know, they interviewed 5 republicans and 50 democrats. > > Anyone have a link to the actual poll? It’s the most recent national poll (Sept 25.) > **[Poll Results | Quinnipiac University Poll](https://poll.qu.edu/poll-results/)** > > Quinnipiac University Poll’s list of recent and past poll results for political races, state and national elections, and issues of public concern. Question 37. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/620 "2019-09-26T16:54:31Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > Did you even read the fucking article? That poll was conducted between 9/19 and 9/23 days before Polosi announced the inquiry an OK. > > Way to bring your A-game :rolleyes: That move rivaled Trump’s in grabbing an old weather model to “prove” he was right about Alabama. Hey, Annoyed. You got a sharpie handy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=32)