# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 310
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6181 "2019-12-13T21:56:07Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Dem turnout will be higher than 2016 but not sure it will be enough to beat a higher GOP turnout due to impeachment getting GOP people ticked off. When fretting over polls indicating Trump’s high approval rating amongst republicans, and republican indignation over impeachment: Republicans make up something like 29% of the electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6182 "2019-12-13T21:58:23Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I already said, fuck this false equivalence. There’s a big difference between bias and propagating falsehoods. Nobody cares about bias, but everyone should care when one network is flat-out pedaling bullshit while the other one actually exists in a fact-based universe, as someone else earlier in the thread mentioned. > > Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk To be clear, and there is no way you could know this from my post, but I was not saying that FOX and MSNBC are in any way equivalent. No way, no how. The gulf is enormous. But if people think MSNBC doesn’t leave out facts when it’s convenient and even outright misstate things and the like, then IMHO, people aren’t watching closely enough. I use “people” because I don’t mean you specifically, just a general point. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6183 "2019-12-13T21:58:49Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Dem turnout will be higher than 2016 but not sure it will be enough to beat a higher GOP turnout due to impeachment getting GOP people ticked off. Right, there’s a ton of Republican voters who didn’t bother to show up in 2016 but _now_ they’re pissed? Show your work. Also show that any number of them is somehow not countered by those who did show up but are now regretting their choice. I realize that number is not huge, but if it’s 10%? Which there is evidence that it is? That 6 million Trump voters who may not vote for him again. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6184 "2019-12-13T22:01:17Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > To be clear, and there is no way you could know this from my post, but I was not saying that FOX and MSNBC are in any way equivalent. No way, no how. The gulf is enormous. But if you think MSNBC doesn’t leave out facts when it’s convenient and even outright misstate things and the like, then IMHO, you aren’t watching closely enough. Everything you say before you use the word “but” is pretty much invisible. For example, “I’m not racist, but.” Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6185 "2019-12-13T22:03:50Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Would it be cheating if I said I gave **drad dog** the last word, but not you, and therefore I can break my pledge? Please indulge me: 🙂 > > First off, I always forget Chuck Todd has a 5 pm show on MSNBC, but do watch him on Meet the Press, and yes, he has \*politicians \*on from all sides, all the time. Kudos to him. Prime time MSNBC does not do this. That was the point. Now, if you define “opposition” as anyone who is now a Republican not in office, then your last statement is true. If you define it to include current Republicans politicians, it is then only partly true. > > And what the hell, if you want to respond, I’ll answer and I don’t think anyone would mind. You didn’t give me the last word so there’s that. It is arbitrary to fault a network for not having a balanced set of guests just because we have a two party system. We already know what they are saying and it’s been drivel. The reason I am calling this “arbitrary” is that you don’t allow for circumstances where a party is antidemocratic, criminal, corrupt or irrational. For you they must both have two POVs expressed to have a valid debate. But the debates arent engagements anyway. It’s trolling. It’s an editors job to make these distinctions. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6186 "2019-12-13T22:08:23Z")
Trump is not going to lose 10% of his voters from 2016. Yes some of them are mad but they hate Dems more. How about all the experts who said Clinton was a sure bet in 2016? Nate Silver was a rare guy who gave Trump around a 33% chance. At least this time Dems should not assume it’s a sure thing. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6187 "2019-12-13T22:13:18Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > To be clear, and there is no way you could know this from my post, but I was not saying that FOX and MSNBC are in any way equivalent. No way, no how. The gulf is enormous. But if people think MSNBC doesn’t leave out facts when it’s convenient and even outright misstate things and the like, then IMHO, people aren’t watching closely enough. I use “people” because I don’t mean you specifically, just a general point. Can you give cites of factual omissions on MSNBC? Also FP: Can you cite a debate between Rs and Ds on the trump issues, that felt fair to you? We all got youtube and everything. I’d like to see what you see. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6188 "2019-12-13T22:16:53Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Trump is not going to lose 10% of his voters from 2016. Yes some of them are mad but they hate Dems more. > > How about all the experts who said Clinton was a sure bet in 2016? Nate Silver was a rare guy who gave Trump around a 33% chance. At least this time Dems should not assume it’s a sure thing. What about show your work do you not understand? For example: > **[Opinion | Trump's isn't just losing young people in 2020 — he's losing their...](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-biggest-risk-2020-isn-t-losing-young-people-ncna1018216)** > > The president may still win the majority of seniors but, if he does so by a significantly smaller margin, that spells problems in swing states. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6189 "2019-12-13T22:40:03Z")
Not giving equal time to opposite viewpoints does not mean that one is unfairly biased. In fact, one can be quite fairly biased. Richard Dawkins is in no way obligated to give equal time to the views of young earth crationists. Neil deGrasse Tyson is in no way obligated to give equal time to the views of flat earthers. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6190 "2019-12-13T22:42:05Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Trump is not going to lose 10% of his voters from 2016. Yes some of them are mad but they hate Dems more. > > How about all the experts who said Clinton was a sure bet in 2016? Nate Silver was a rare guy who gave Trump around a 33% chance. At least this time Dems should not assume it’s a sure thing. ETA. Forget what I said, you said Nate gave him a chance 66% chance is not a sure bet. It’s not even close. It is a good likelihood. Underdogs win all the time ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6191 "2019-12-13T22:54:20Z")
Especially after Comey sneaks up and Tonya Hardings the frontrunner! (Would Gillooly have worked better there?) ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6192 "2019-12-13T23:03:39Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > What about show your work do you not understand? > > For example: > > [Trump's biggest risk in 2020 isn't losing young people. It's losing their grandparents.](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-biggest-risk-2020-isn-t-losing-young-people-ncna1018216) > > Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk - In a new Economist/YouGov poll, just 25 percent of seniors and 25 percent of Americans overall say that they are better off financially than they were a year ago.\* Reagan - “Are you better off now than you were four years ago?” Most Americans said they were not. This is a big deal. I read somewhere recently that the biggest factor when people decide who to vote for was the general trend of the country. That this was more important than any specific issue. Wish I had the link. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6193 "2019-12-13T23:08:38Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Not giving equal time to opposite viewpoints does not mean that one is unfairly biased. > > In fact, one can be quite fairly biased. Richard Dawkins is in no way obligated to give equal time to the views of young earth crationists. Neil deGrasse Tyson is in no way obligated to give equal time to the views of flat earthers. It’s like saying that IF Stone and Jim Jordan are the same thing. > **[I. F. Stone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I._F._Stone)** > > Isidor Feinstein Stone (December 24, 1907 – June 18, 1989) was an American investigative journalist, writer, and author. > Known for his politically progressive views, Stone is best remembered for I. F. Stone's Weekly (1953–1971), a newsletter which the New York University journalism department in 1999 ranked 16th among the top hundred works of journalism in the U.S. in the twentieth century and second place among print journalism publications. Stone's reputation has been dogged by allegations o... ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6194 "2019-12-13T23:18:30Z")
This is in line with something I’ve been thinking about for a while. A couple of years ago I got into an online debate with someone who insisted that the economy with Obama was really bad through to the end of his term. It did not matter how many links and charts and graphs I showed him (some from publications like Forbes), he was convinced The economy now with Trump is basically the same as the economy with Obama. Stock market is up, unemployment is down, jobs are being added every month. But many people are struggling. They can’t save any money, they can barely afford health care or college, they are a couple of missed paychecks away from losing their house. When Obama was President, they could blame it on him and the Democrats. They didn’t really pay much attention to the economic numbers because they personally weren’t benefiting. And so they voted for Trump who would change things for them. Suddenly they started to notice the numbers and the reports, and believed that eventually this “new” economy would, well, trickle down to them. But it has now been three years and it hasn’t happened and it will not happen in the next year. And I think there are going to be enough voters who realize this to make the difference in this election. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6195 "2019-12-14T01:54:37Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Did anyone stay up and see the Doug Collins post-gavel rant, some time around midnight? The whole thing illustrates exactly the problem with all the Republicans from yesterday: an inability to think logically. You see, the whole thing, if you listen to Collins, is now completely illegitimate because Nadler (gasp!) decided to postpone the vote until this morning. Collins doesn’t like the fact that Nadler did this so the vote could be shown on TV when more Americans would be watching. The reporting I heard was that the Republicans were all excited about the talking point they thought they were creating for themselves (by dragging out the proceedings to the extent that it couldn’t wrap up until after midnight)---- > [@](#): > > _'These awful Democrats are so ashamed of what they’re doing that they voted in the middle of the night!!!1!!! When no decent Americans could see what they were doing! They are so awful and sneaky!!!11!!!_ Supposedly Nadler got wind of this and decided to deny them their little treat. (Good for him!) > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > … Furthermore, if the hearings became illegitimate \*after \*Nadler pulled his admittedly lame stunt without informing the other side, does this not also suggest that Collins indeed thinks the Dems had some legitimacy before it happened? What a maroon. Good point–and I bet Collins never thought of it. (But of course Collins, like all his ilk, will strenuously resist any and all logical inferences, such as the one you outline here.) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6196 "2019-12-14T02:25:03Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > - In a new Economist/YouGov poll, just 25 percent of seniors and 25 percent of Americans overall say that they are better off financially than they were a year ago.\* > > Reagan - “Are you better off now than you were four years ago?” Most Americans said they were not. > > This is a big deal. I read somewhere recently that the biggest factor when people decide who to vote for was the general trend of the country. That this was more important than any specific issue. Wish I had the link. I read this in SciAm about 30+ years ago. The short article stated that elections can be predicted upon the voters’ perception of the overall economic trend, and it was completely accurate, at least with the scope of their analysis nearly two centuries of presidential elections, as I recall). Perfectly accurate – except, the analysis/prognostication was based on feelings: how the voters _feel_ about the economy’s trajectory. This can be a very difficult thing to measure, as there are no reliable indices for measuring feelings/perceptions. And that factor is subject to not only a voter’s real life experience but is also somewhat vulnerable to being manipulated through the information they receive. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6197 "2019-12-14T03:24:33Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > And that factor is subject to not only a voter’s real life experience but is also somewhat vulnerable to being manipulated through the information they receive. Yeah. Trump’s die-hard base of political support is based their stupidity in accepting anything he says at face value. He will tell them it’s the best economy in the history of the nation, and they’ll believe it, even though they are not economically better off. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6198 "2019-12-14T14:09:32Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It would most likely be in Trump’s interests to either: > > 1. Order McConnell to make the Senate trial as speedy as possible (since he apparently can order Mitch around); > > 2. Use the Senate trial as his chance to subpoena Pelosi or Biden or whoever else he wants to subpoena, assuming he or Barr can do that, for whatever purpose he wants. Best guesses from the \*punditti \*are that McConnell _already_ wants a quick and dirty run-through: in, out, and over. It is Trump who wants to make a circus out of it, bring in witnesses, subpoena Hunter and Joe Biden, so on and so forth. The central dynamic being that Trump wants a spectacle of absolute vindication, which ends with him being hoisted upon the shoulders of the Senate and carried out to a massive public rally of celebration and support. He can’t accept mere winning, he must _crush_ his enemies, scatter their horses, etc. Now, a sensible person might happily opt for the first, or even go for an embarrassing but toothless “censure” option. Because he would effectively lose nothing, his power remains intact, and he can claim vindication just as easily. A sensible person might even perform a mealy-mouthed apology for the technical violations of silly laws. A sensible person, that is. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6199 "2019-12-14T15:58:09Z")
I have a fantasy that the Senate trial begins, and the House managers immediately move that McConnel’s actions – “coordinating” the Senate rules with the White House, freely admitted to Fox News – constitute jury tampering. Roberts agrees, bangs the gavel, and the “rules” are null and void and McConnell is kicked off the jury. A guy can dream… ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6200 "2019-12-14T21:27:13Z")
Did you hear that one Republican say “We wouldn’t do this to them.” after Nadler’s scheduling the morning vote? These people have no self-perception at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=309) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=311)