# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 318
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6341 "2019-12-19T16:18:51Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Fear of Trump twitter attacks leading to being primaried from someone further right. Trump can’t twitter attack 190 republican representatives. And, even more, it would seem if someone is in a moderate district they would be better off being more centrist, on both the primary and election portions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6342 "2019-12-19T16:23:10Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > It was the eve of impeachment when the Supreme Court forced Nixon to release the tapes, and he soon resigned. So something similar is remotely possible here before the Senate trial, but the circumstances are so different it doesn’t seem likely. There’s always his financial records including his taxes. The many court cases are coalescing into something SCOTUS is looking at and most legal experts note Trump is likely to lose there (he has consistently lost in the lower courts). That’s definitely a parallel to United States v. Nixon (1974). Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6343 "2019-12-19T16:24:13Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > This morning’s talking point has whiplashed to Pelosi can’t delay sending the articles to the senate because it’s too slow. :smack: Merrick Garland might have something to say about that. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6344 "2019-12-19T16:33:29Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Trump can’t twitter attack 190 republican representatives. And, even more, it would seem if someone is in a moderate district they would be better off being more centrist, on both the primary and election portions. A lot of it is the cult of personality of Trump, and the devotion of the Trumpists. If you break with trump a little bit, you lose those voters for sure, whereas everyone else is still possible to reason with. So anyone still relying on a lot of republican votes is trying hard to avoid saying anything even mildly negative about trump. And I understand that calculus (though still despise it morally / ethically). The guys who gave speeches at the hearings though, that gave passionate, vociferous arguments against impeachment, absolutely laced with misinformation and rhetorical tricks…I don’t understand those people at all. I don’t know how it’s possible to collect enough people together willing and able to do that. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6345 "2019-12-19T16:40:55Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > A lot of it is the cult of personality of Trump, and the devotion of the Trumpists. > If you break with trump a little bit, you lose those voters for sure, whereas everyone else is still possible to reason with. > So anyone still relying on a lot of republican votes is trying hard to avoid saying anything even mildly negative about trump. > > And I understand that calculus (though still despise it morally / ethically). > > The guys who gave speeches at the hearings though, that gave passionate, vociferous arguments against impeachment, absolutely laced with misinformation and rhetorical tricks…I don’t understand those people at all. I don’t know how it’s possible to collect enough people together willing and able to do that. I understand what you are saying and why it is true for a majority of republicans. I don’t understand why it is true for 100% of them. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6346 "2019-12-19T16:46:27Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Why this was an almost 100% partisan vote? > > Are there no republicans in pink areas that are worried about their reelection? Why is it that not a single republican representative looked at the evidence and decided this was wrong? > > I understand, sorta, why there are some that say this didn’t reach the level of impeachable offense (I disagree, but I can understand the view). Why was there no more than 2 democrats who thought that? > > This should not be a democrat vs. republican issue. There is room for some debate on and both sides, but not to this extreme. This should have been 70% in favor of impeachment, with some Dems voting no, but way more, at least a few, Republicans voting yes. No, the ones who are tired of living the lie are retiring, but those who aspire to hold onto office going forward are giving fealty to Trump and McConnell. One might ask, “Okay, so if Republican members of the House are retiring, why don’t they now come out and oppose the president” – because they can’t. This is the dirty toe jam of American politics: they want to have political access so that they can make millions more out of office through political consulting and lobbying. They worry that if they cross the president and McConnell that they will get black balled – and then they’ll have to go out and get a real career. The right wing has created an ecosystem in which money and financial interests have corrupted the Beltway and state legislatures around the country. They’re going to go down with the president and Senate majority leader. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6347 "2019-12-19T16:47:24Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I understand what you are saying and why it is true for a majority of republicans. I don’t understand why it is true for 100% of them. The GOP has been successfully weeding out people with shreds of decency, honesty, honor, patriotism, etc., from their office-holders (and especially from House GOP members) for decades. There’s virtually none of that left. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6348 "2019-12-19T16:47:50Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > Worth Noting: Tulsi Gabbard abstained from voting. I was going to ask that. Who are the 3 Ds that voted no? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6349 "2019-12-19T16:49:00Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Trump can’t twitter attack 190 republican representatives. And, even more, it would seem if someone is in a moderate district they would be better off being more centrist, on both the primary and election portions. There, you see, you’ve answered your own question. Although I happen to think Trump can and will happily Twitter attack 190 Republican representatives. But to your main point, you’re right – someone in a moderate district _would_ be better off with a more centrist representative. But that’s not what Republicans want. They want to take back their majority. So if Trump primaries such a seat with an even more hard line Trumpist type, the most likely final outcome isn’t that the Trumpier person will win in the general. The Democrat will, because independents will flee from voting for the Trumpier candidate. The best the existing Republican representative can hope for is that he/she can hold the seat with the same independents that voted for him/her in 2018 – and that means supporting Trump, no matter how cray-cray he [DEL]is[/DEL] becomes. As for why they vote in lockstep… would _you_ want to be the only head that’s poking up above the foxhole? Look what happened to Justin Amash. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6350 "2019-12-19T16:50:57Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I was going to ask that. Who are the 3 Ds that voted no? Colin Peterson from MN, who’s always been way, way more conservative than the rest of the party; Jeff Van Drew from NJ who’s already decided to become a Republican (literally – he’s about to switch parties, according to many news reports); and Jared Golden from ME who voted YES for one of the articles and NO for the other (maybe just to be unique?). ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6351 "2019-12-19T16:54:05Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Perhaps Nancy Pelosi is settling in to wait for the pending court decisions on Trump’s taxes and various pending subpoenas for documents and witnesses. These may or may not be related to the standing Articles of Impeachment, but with more bad news emerging, there will be more pressure on Moscow Mitch and Gorky Graham. If you think about it, with the approaching election, the timing could not be more perfect to effectively remove Trump from the 2020 GOP ticket. I think you might be onto something here. Generally, Pelosi has always been able playing the long game on impeachment and sticking to the fundamentals of politics first. And up to this point, Pelosi has been much better at sticking it to Trump than any of her colleagues. However, over the last several weeks, with hearings and vote counts, Trump started to put Pelosi on the defensive a little, as she has been tasked with defending a process she knew was politically polarizing. Pelosi’s brilliance has been that she has always avoided being the aggressor, and instead opted to wait for Trump to make his moves first and use his aggression against him. She has had this uncanny ability to figure out what he’s going to do in advance, and she’s set traps for him. Impeachment has thrown her off her game a little, but this is a smart way to retake control of the situation. She can’t be accused of giving into Republicans because she gave the progressives their impeachment votes, but she also avoids running into the buzz saw known as Mitch McConnell. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6352 "2019-12-19T17:27:56Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > There, you see, you’ve answered your own question. Although I happen to think Trump can and will happily Twitter attack 190 Republican representatives. > > But to your main point, you’re right – someone in a moderate district _would_ be better off with a more centrist representative. But that’s not what Republicans want. They want to take back their majority. > > So if Trump primaries such a seat with an even more hard line Trumpist type, the most likely final outcome isn’t that the Trumpier person will win in the general. The Democrat will, because independents will flee from voting for the Trumpier candidate. The best the existing Republican representative can hope for is that he/she can hold the seat with the same independents that voted for him/her in 2018 – and that means supporting Trump, no matter how cray-cray he [DEL]is[/DEL] becomes. > > As for why they vote in lockstep… would _you_ want to be the only head that’s poking up above the foxhole? Look what happened to Justin Amash. I realize both parties would want someone who is never going to cross party lines. But the “party” doesn’t really get to elect someone in a moderate district. I would assume many districts are pretty centrist, so mostly the district drifts back and forth between Republican and Democrat. If a radical either way makes it into office, I would expect them to quickly be gone. So even though the party would love to have a radical in there, the district itself would limit that. I would expect that to be the case in a much higher percentage of districts than 0, which is exactly what happened here. And yes, I would expect someone would actually WANT to put their head above the foxhole. Doing the right thing is often going to work out better in the long run. I’m convinced Obama’s votes on the Iraq war spending bills and stance against the war are what got him elected over Hilary. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6353 "2019-12-19T17:29:23Z")
I think Pelosi knows exactly what she is doing and is not ruffled in the least. It’s hard for the other side to scream, “gamesmanship!” when their Senate Majority Leader and the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee have both come out and said they do not intend to be impartial jurors or provide a fair trial on the facts, will not even allow the House to call witnesses. I think it’s McConnell and Graham who have miscalculated when they publicly announced their intent to rig the Senate trial. Polls show 71% of people in this country want witnesses to be called. There are a lot of Republicans who are included in that figure. Plus, this is going to nut Trump up even beyond his 6-page screed. He’s been waiting as patiently as he can for this to get to the Senate so he can have his “exonerated” moment. Now he has to wait some more. Maybe a lot more. Pelosi knows that the scarier he gets, the more pressure it puts on Republicans to acknowledge they are supporting a loon in the White House. You know who else is likely wiping his brow at Pelosi’s insistence on a fair trial? John Roberts, who has probably had a few sleepless nights thinking about what a chump he’s going to look while presiding over a sham trial where the jurors have already declared the fix is in. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6354 "2019-12-19T17:33:30Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > So if Trump primaries such a seat with an even more hard line Trumpist type, the most likely final outcome isn’t that the Trumpier person will win in the general. The Democrat will, because independents will flee from voting for the Trumpier candidate. The best the existing Republican representative can hope for is that he/she can hold the seat with the same independents that voted for him/her in 2018 – and that means supporting Trump, no matter how cray-cray he [DEL]is[/DEL] becomes. If the Republican party wants to keep the seat, they won’t primary a Republican in a moderate district for someone even more Trumpian, as you indicated. They would guarantee a loss. The R candidate knows this, or should. Therefore, both the candidate and the party are better served if the R representative votes more moderately. The hard line Trumpists won’t ever vote D, so on the election the R will still carry their votes and the the R candidate will be more likely to carry more of the mid-liners. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6355 "2019-12-19T17:44:14Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > If the Republican party wants to keep the seat, they won’t primary a Republican in a moderate district for someone even more Trumpian, as you indicated. They would guarantee a loss. The R candidate knows this, or should. Therefore, both the candidate and the party are better served if the R representative votes more moderately. The hard line Trumpists won’t ever vote D, so on the election the R will still carry their votes and the the R candidate will be more likely to carry more of the mid-liners. Trump _himself_ will see to it that a Trumpier primary opponent goes into the race. That’s what he’s done again and again, even against the wishes of the Republican party as a whole. He doesn’t understand how it works, that he’s basically handing the win over to a Democrat when he does it. See Democratic Senator Doug Jones in Alabama for a good example of this. You’re right, in a normal world. We’re not in a normal world. Trump punishes any and all who step out of line, even to the detriment of the Republican party as a whole. So now they have the proverbial wolf by the ear. Why do you think Republicans will only attack the impeachment _process_? The have no exonerating facts, and they’re _not permitted_ in Trump’s Republican party to imply that he did anything wrong, not even a little bit. It’s insane, but this is their chosen path. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6356 "2019-12-19T17:44:48Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think you might be onto something here. > > Generally, Pelosi has always been able playing the long game on impeachment and sticking to the fundamentals of politics first. And up to this point, Pelosi has been much better at sticking it to Trump than any of her colleagues. However, over the last several weeks, with hearings and vote counts, Trump started to put Pelosi on the defensive a little, as she has been tasked with defending a process she knew was politically polarizing. Pelosi’s brilliance has been that she has always avoided being the aggressor, and instead opted to wait for Trump to make his moves first and use his aggression against him. She has had this uncanny ability to figure out what he’s going to do in advance, and she’s set traps for him. Impeachment has thrown her off her game a little, but this is a smart way to retake control of the situation. She can’t be accused of giving into Republicans because she gave the progressives their impeachment votes, but she also avoids running into the buzz saw known as Mitch McConnell. She is brilliant. And one of the things she is best at is NOT TAKING THE BAIT. Trump is the kind of bully who provokes people into responding (like all trolls). Nancy will have none of it. That’s how she takes charge and stays in control. I say sit on this vote and let the Pubbies stew in their own juices. No point in sending it over to the Senate where it will quickly be put in the garbage can of history. Keep it alive. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6357 "2019-12-19T18:15:56Z")
Just like trump sez, it’s obviously all Hillary’s fault: > **[Hillary lost in 2016 on purpose so Trump could be impeached, claims White...](https://washingtonpress.com/2019/12/18/hillary-lost-in-2016-on-purpose-so-trump-could-be-impeached-claims-white-house-source/?fbclid=IwAR39Mc8YXmsRwOu8OIw6bru0Y9l0fQ3SAZCHJB90X5NxkE8__YM9jAAEo2Y)** > > The gonzo theory claims that Dems colluded with Russia in a plot to embarrass Trump with impeachment before he was even elected. _Hillary lost in 2016 on purpose so Trump could be impeached, claims White House source_ :eek::eek::eek::eek: Please note, this is NOT from the Onion. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6358 "2019-12-19T18:18:27Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Trump _himself_ will see to it that a Trumpier primary opponent goes into the race. That’s what he’s done again and again, even against the wishes of the Republican party as a whole. He doesn’t understand how it works, that he’s basically handing the win over to a Democrat when he does it. See Democratic Senator Doug Jones in Alabama for a good example of this. You mean the primary where Trump supported Roy Moore’s opponent and Roy Moore won? THAT is an example of where Trump will see to it that a Trumpier primary opponent will win the primary and go into the general election? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6359 "2019-12-19T18:43:30Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > You mean the primary where Trump supported Roy Moore’s opponent and Roy Moore won? THAT is an example of where Trump will see to it that a Trumpier primary opponent will win the primary and go into the general election? I apologize. I got that entirely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6360 "2019-12-19T18:48:02Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I apologize. I got that entirely wrong. No worries. There has been so much turmoil it is hard to keep it all straight. I’m still wondering why this is 100% along party lines. I can see a D in a primarily R district going “across the aisle” and vice versa. It just doesn’t make any sense. Even as divisive and entrenched as we are in our politics these days, I would have thought a handful, maybe even a few, Rs would have voted with the constitution and not the party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=317) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=319)