# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/641 "2019-09-26T17:36:17Z")
What do you mean “currently”? He has made similar statements since before he was elected. ETA replying to **Euphonious Polemic** (page break) ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/642 "2019-09-26T17:37:53Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Yes, IIRC that poll also found that two-thirds of Americans don’t yet feel they understand the details about the Ukraine scandal. Right–most Americans don’t know shit about what goes on in their own government. They’re too busy watching bullshit fictional “reality” TV shows, (like The Apprentice). Trump supporters are particularly susceptible to bullshit, and even if you could show them how much Trump is full of bullshit, they won’t accept it, because they don’t want to admit how they’ve been duped. The inquiry will have to dumb down the whole thing a lot before any polls start showing overall support for impeachment. Our emperor has no clothes, and it’s a disgusting sight, but a lot of Americans are still in denial. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/643 "2019-09-26T17:38:41Z")
I wonder – is there anyone left that curbs Trump’s craziness? Kelly was just awful from an honor-and-decency perspective, but he wasn’t stupid. Neither was McGahn. Both of them probably stopped Trump from doing really, really stupid stuff that would directly harm him politically. Is there anyone left with any actual smarts? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/644 "2019-09-26T17:39:00Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Do what I do. Go to the FoxNews and Breitbart websites, open the outhouse door, stick your head down the hole (metaphor: comments sections), and take a big whiff. > > I do this a couple times a week as I believe it strengthens the lungs (metaphor: gives me insight into the wingnuts). I think a note of caution is in order. This is not for everybody. The right wing bubble is designed to suck people into their way of thinking. Too much exposure could cause permanent political realignment. Too many guys start watching Fox or listening to Limbaugh, Savage, and the like and before they know it, they develop immunity to factual information and critical analysis. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/645 "2019-09-26T17:41:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wonder – is there anyone left that curbs Trump’s craziness? Kelly was just awful from an honor-and-decency perspective, but he wasn’t stupid. Neither was McGahn. Both of them probably stopped Trump from doing really, really stupid stuff that would directly harm him politically. Is there anyone left with any actual smarts? I think this may be what has happened. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/646 "2019-09-26T17:41:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wonder – is there anyone left that curbs Trump’s craziness? Kelly was just awful from an honor-and-decency perspective, but he wasn’t stupid. Neither was McGahn. Both of them probably stopped Trump from doing really, really stupid stuff that would directly harm him politically. Is there anyone left with any actual smarts? I think the only people left are interns who would accidentally sent their own talking points to Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/647 "2019-09-26T17:42:40Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I think the only people left are interns who would accidentally sent their own talking points to Democrats. And I question the accidentally part. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/648 "2019-09-26T17:43:07Z")
Some Republican’s senators’ [initial reactions](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/whistleblower-complaint-impeachment-inquiry/index.html), presented without comment: > [@](#): > > Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton said “no comment” twice and boarded a senators-only elevator when asked if he was concerned the White House was locking down information. > > Ohio Sen. Rob Portman said he said he’s been “running around” all day and hasn’t read it and would not comment. > > Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, a Republican from Florida, told reporters he has read the whistleblower’s complaint, and says he has “more questions than answers.” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/649 "2019-09-26T17:43:39Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Sorry if this isn’t the appropriate thread, but can someone point me to what they think is the most succinct analysis of what (purportedly) happened and the steps that are being taken? It really can be a challenge to fight through the partisan folk on both side to get an objective view. And so many of the “facts” seem to be of the weaselly, likely unethical, but criminal? sort. > > Also, anyone know of a clear discussion of what different “rules” apply in an impeachment, compared to all of the various previous hearings? My main focus is on him NOT getting another term and - hopefully - Repubs losing the Senate majority. I’m trying to figure out what benefits the impeachment inquiry provides in those efforts. > > It would take quite a bit for someone to detest Trump more than I, but I have to admit that there has been a bit of fatigue. I’ve long thought Trump embarrassing, dishonest, and incompetent, and suspect he is seeking to enrich himself through his office. Basically a scummy individual. But none of that is news. And none of that apparently matters to his true-believers or the Republicans in Congress. > > It is not readily obvious to me why THIS action - as opposed to so many others - is the one that merits impeachment. This baffled me as well, and in fact I started a thread on this very question:[https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882461](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882461) My conclusion, somewhere on page three of that thread was that it happened quickly (before Barr or anyone could set the table), and the offense is easy to understand. By the time the Mueller report came out, much was already known, and many of the really bad things were couched in legalese (“If we could have determined that the president did not commit a crime, we would have”, or something like that). Plus, obstruction is a much more vague crime that extortion (“hey, that’s a nice country you’ve got there – it would be a shame if something were to happen to it”) and digging up dirt on your political enemies. So, clearer, more understandable offense, happening much more quickly, with no chance for the White House or its toadies in the DOJ to soften the blow. Compare that with obstruction (with no obvious underlying crime) leaked out over two years, with a summary from Barr spinning to say all is well and when that final report came out, it was seen to be a fizzle. It’s weird, because obstruction is a crime whether or not we learn about it slowly. I’m convinced that if no one knew that Mueller was conducting this investigation and then released it through an honest DOJ, it would have been a bombshell and led to impeachment. Next time I simulate the universe, I’ll have to try that path out. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/650 "2019-09-26T17:43:47Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’m not up on the whole Deutsche Bank investigation, but it seems to me that if Trump’s fortune has come from such bribery as quoted above, this would have not of happened over night, it has been going on for years and maybe decades, and there is no way evidence of such would have gone unnoticed for all that time. I will be extremely surprised if Trump has done these things. Perhaps his returns might so instances of tax fraud and the like, but not that. Here’s the thing with Deutsche Bank: They were [fined $10 billion in a Russian money-laundering scheme](https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/investing/deutsche-bank-us-fine-russia-money-laundering/index.html) only a couple years ago and there are still charges swirling around them today which [involve Jared Kushner](https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-investigating-deutsche-bank-for-money-laundering-kushner-transactions-2019-6). Trump actually [sued the bank in 2008](https://themoscowproject.org/collusion/trump-sues-deutsche-bank-3-billion/) when he was unable to make payments on a loan (which is of course how anyone who cannot pay off a loan handles it) and when nobody else would loan Trump money, why would the bank that he had already defaulted on and sued [still do so](https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-deutsche-bank-donald-trump)? There’s a lot of unexplained things going on with that relationship. It will be interesting to see how they are explained. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/651 "2019-09-26T17:47:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think a note of caution is in order. This is not for everybody. The right wing bubble is designed to suck people into their way of thinking. Too much exposure could cause permanent political realignment. Too many guys start watching Fox or listening to Limbaugh, Savage, and the like and before they know it, they develop immunity to factual information and critical analysis. There is a documentary called **The Brainwashing of My Dad** that chronicles this very phenomenon. The director’s father was a Democrat. The family moved and the father then had a long commute to work during which he began listening to Rush Limbaugh. Eventually he transformed into a rabid right-winger. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/652 "2019-09-26T17:47:17Z")
If my own interest in this story is any indicator of its significance, I haven’t been this riveted in checking/updating my own various online news sources in months. Maybe not since the 2018 midterm election. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/653 "2019-09-26T17:47:34Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Here’s the thing with Deutsche Bank: They were [fined $10 billion in a Russian money-laundering scheme](https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/investing/deutsche-bank-us-fine-russia-money-laundering/index.html) only a couple years ago and there are still charges swirling around them today which [involve Jared Kushner](https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-investigating-deutsche-bank-for-money-laundering-kushner-transactions-2019-6). Trump actually [sued the bank in 2008](https://themoscowproject.org/collusion/trump-sues-deutsche-bank-3-billion/) when he was unable to make payments on a loan (which is of course how anyone who cannot pay off a loan handles it) and when nobody else would loan Trump money, why would the bank that he had already defaulted on and sued [still do so](https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-deutsche-bank-donald-trump)? > > There’s a lot of unexplained things going on with that relationship. It will be interesting to see how they are explained. This is the beginning of Trump being Vlad’s patsy. It is also why Biden shouldn’t be the Democrat’s nominee. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/654 "2019-09-26T17:47:39Z")
Honesty, dishonesty, integrity, constitutionality-none of this is even on the table when it comes to Trump supporters. Trump’s ability to hold onto the power is their only concern. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/655 "2019-09-26T17:48:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If my own interest in this story is any indicator of its significance, I haven’t been this riveted in checking/updating my own various online news sources in months. Maybe not since the 2018 midterm election. My productivity has gone to hell just following this thread the last three days! ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/656 "2019-09-26T17:50:19Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Do what I do. Go to the FoxNews and Breitbart websites, open the outhouse door, stick your head down the hole (metaphor: comments sections), and take a big whiff. > > I do this a couple times a week as I believe it strengthens the lungs (metaphor: gives me insight into the wingnuts). I do too and would say that it equally crushes the spirit. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/657 "2019-09-26T17:52:58Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > My productivity has gone to hell just following this thread the last three days! Tell me about it! I literally just now wrote a post-it on my work computer monitor: “NO MORE STRAIGHT DOPE OR TRUMP STUFF UNTIL AFTER OCT. 1”. Okay — see y’all in a few days — ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/658 "2019-09-26T17:54:39Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > I do too and would say that it equally crushes the spirit. It doesn’t so much crush my spirit as make me sad. I come away from it wondering just how stupid do you have to be, to believe what they are selling. My family, my friends, my coworkers. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/659 "2019-09-26T17:58:00Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Indeed; that is actually quoted in the whistleblower complaint on page 2, footnote 1. Cool. I haven’t had a chance to read it yet. Busy morning. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/660 "2019-09-26T17:58:53Z")
So, is Trump threatening the life and freedom of the whistle blower’s source when he says: > [@Trump](#): > > “I want to know who’s the person who gave the whistle-blower the information because that’s close to a spy,” Mr. Trump said. “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart with spies and treason, right? We used to handle it a little differently than we do now.” Seems like witness tampering to me – can we add that to the list? Also, treason? Mr. Trump, **HurricaneDitka** has a bone to pick with you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=34)