# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 331
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6601 "2019-12-24T19:55:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It happened in Ukraine. That’s why you ask the Ukrainians to investigate. Is the FBI going to stomp into Ukraine and demand to see documents? What US law is Donald Trump worried that Hunter Biden and/or Burisma might have violated? > [@UltraVires](#): > > And in response to others who are outraged that the President is ordering investigations: that is his job. He is the executive branch. Not the DOJ, not the FBI, not anyone else but him. He has complete constitutional authority to conduct investigations. So you are saying that Donald Trump did _order_ that an investigation take place? Who did he order and when? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6602 "2019-12-24T20:27:23Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > This, from the poster that went, “incontrovertible proof of murder” to “Hunter Biden” in four sentences? Please. > > ETA: Could you cite the clause of the Constitution that supports your “complete authority to conduct investigations”? Because that never came up in Article II. The Take Care Clause and the Executive Clause. The President is the executive. If the President wants to have my cousin Dave conduct an investigation for him, that is his right. Just because past presidents have done things a certain way doesn’t mean that all future presidents must do it the same way. Do we at least agree on that? What crime could the Biden’s have committed? A violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act: [Foreign Corrupt Practices Act - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act) You have Hunter Biden with no experience, no ties to Ukraine, no education, or any knowledge at all about oil and gas getting a lucrative position. This just so happened after Joe Biden demanded that a prosecutor be fired or else he would withhold $1 Billion in aid. Does that mean that one or both is automatically guilty? Of course not. But it is enough for an investigation. Or should they be immune from investigation because they are of the opposite political party of the current president? I can guarantee you that if that was Donald Trump, Jr. that got that position, this board would demand Trump’s impeachment for that. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6603 "2019-12-24T20:30:02Z")
here is the national review pro impeachment article [Four Tests for Impeachment | National Review](https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/12/31/four-tests-for-impeachment/#slide-1) ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6604 "2019-12-24T20:39:52Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > To me, the biggest difference is that there is actually evidence of Warmbiers guilt, while no one has ever made a specific allegation against Hunter Biden. Yeah, it’s been bugging me for ages. What has Hunter Biden meant to have done? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6605 "2019-12-24T20:48:53Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But it is enough for an investigation. Or should they be immune from investigation because they are of the opposite political party of the current president? Please, please drop this strawman argument about how the opposing party will be immune from investigations. It makes you look silly. And then tell me why on god’s green Earth you think Ukraine should investigate a possible violation of US law without US DOJ involvement and a valid application of an MLAT with Ukraine. Please. Until you answer that you’re not on the same page as anyone else here and you’re just wasting your time. We don’t understand why you think that’s the way the world should work, because it’s at odds with everything we understand about sovereign nations. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6606 "2019-12-24T20:56:52Z")
I like the part about how the President cannot be impeached without crimes being proven, and simultaneously being immune to investigation for crimes. Presumed innocent until proven guilty, which isn’t allowed. Catch-22 ain’t shit, compared to that! ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6607 "2019-12-24T20:57:43Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Yeah, it’s been bugging me for ages. What has Hunter Biden meant to have done? I really would love for the Democrats to grudgingly concede, and let Hunter Biden be a witness in the impeachment trial. It would probably go like: Q: Mr. Biden, is it true that you’re on the board of Burisma? A: Yes. Q: And isn’t it also true that you’re _highly compensated_ for this? A: Yes. Q: And isn’t it true that you don’t have any particular knowledge of the Ukrainian energy sector? A: Yeah, I guess. Q: Aha! And have you ever asked your father, former VP Joseph Biden, for any … _favors_? A: Nope. Never. Q: Oh. OK. No more questions. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6608 "2019-12-24T21:09:43Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The Take Care Clause and the Executive Clause. The President is the executive. If the President wants to have my cousin Dave conduct an investigation for him, that is his right. Just because past presidents have done things a certain way doesn’t mean that all future presidents must do it the same way. Do we at least agree on that? > > What crime could the Biden’s have committed? A violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act: [Foreign Corrupt Practices Act - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act) > > You have Hunter Biden with no experience, no ties to Ukraine, no education, or any knowledge at all about oil and gas getting a lucrative position. **This just so happened after Joe Biden demanded that a prosecutor be fired or else he would withhold $1 Billion in aid.** (My emphasis) If you are going to make outlandish allegations, you should at least get [basic facts](https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/05/biden-ukraine-burisma-trump/) right. > [@](#): > > Roughly two years after Hunter Biden’s appointment to Burisma’s board, the vice president traveled to Kiev, Ukraine’s capital, where he threatened that the U.S. would withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees unless Ukraine ousted its prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin. At the time, Shokin was accused of ignoring corruption within his own political office. So it is clearly not true that Hunter Biden was promoted to the board of directors in response to his father’s threats to withhold aid. Care to try again on your allegation of a foreign bribe? In fact, if you do pay attention to details, you’ll note that the firing of the prosecutor could only have possibly resulted in opening an investigation into Burisma, since no such investigation existed at the time of the ouster. If you intend to claim otherwise, please identify the investigation that Biden was attempting to squash. > [@Kambuckta](#): > > What has Hunter Biden meant to have done? He got paid a lot of money to try to help establish that a Ukranian company was legitimate. Nepotism of the highest order, he was clearly trading on his name. It’s very similar to what George W. Bush did in the 1980’s when he took a position with [Harken Energy](https://publicintegrity.org/environment/a-brief-history-of-bush-harken-and-the-sec/); or what his brother [Marvin](https://digwithin.net/2012/02/24/kuwam-and-stratesec-directors/) did when he took a board position with a company with foreign ties. Of course, now we don’t have politically connected kids getting sinecures to trade on their name. Instead, they just own businesses which get [direct favors](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/14/china-trump-trademarks-beijing) from foreign countries trying to curry favor. > [@](#): > > China has also granted formal approval for dozens of Trump trademarks in the last few weeks, bring to 39 the total number of official registrations China has given the Trump family business since Trump took office, according to records. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6609 "2019-12-24T21:19:05Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You have Hunter Biden with no experience, no ties to Ukraine, no education, or any knowledge at all about oil and gas getting a lucrative position. This just so happened after Joe Biden demanded that a prosecutor be fired or else he would withhold $1 Billion in aid. Number one, will it change your opinion at all to know that you have this sequence of events backwards? Number two, Hunter Biden had previous experience serving on the board of a large corporation. He was appointed to the board of directors of Amtrak by George W. Bush and served as that board’s vice chairman. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6610 "2019-12-24T22:12:55Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You have Hunter Biden with no experience, no ties to Ukraine, no education, or any knowledge at all about oil and gas getting a lucrative position. Hunter Biden has a BS from Georgetown, and a law degree from Yale. He served on the board and was board vice chairman of Amtrak, appointed to that position by the GW Bush administration. It took me like 5 seconds to look this up. I’ll give you his inexperience at energy in Ukraine, but you got pretty much everything else wrong in that sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6611 "2019-12-24T22:21:23Z")
Al Gore is on Apple’s board. Nikki Haley is on Boeing’s board. People who think Hunter Biden’s seat on Burisma’s board needs investigation do not understand what a board is or what it does. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6612 "2019-12-24T22:28:32Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The Take Care Clause and the Executive Clause. The President is the executive. If the President wants to have my cousin Dave conduct an investigation for him, that is his right. Just because past presidents have done things a certain way doesn’t mean that all future presidents must do it the same way. Do we at least agree on that? Well, we must be reading completely different Constitutions. > [@](#): > > You have Hunter Biden with no experience, no ties to Ukraine, no education, or any knowledge at all about oil and gas getting a lucrative position. This just so happened after Joe Biden demanded that a prosecutor be fired or else he would withhold $1 Billion in aid. Does that mean that one or both is automatically guilty? Of course not. But it is enough for an investigation. Or should they be immune from investigation because they are of the opposite political party of the current president? > > I can guarantee you that if that was Donald Trump, Jr. that got that position, this board would demand Trump’s impeachment for that. Your timeline is completely fucked, and you should probably attempt to educate yourself on that. Your ignorance is harming your attempted points. Oh, and the investigation already happened. The Ukrainian prosecutor that WASN’T blatantly corrupt actually DID the investigation of Burisma that the previous prosecutor had let sit on the shelf. I’ll let you guess the results of that investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6613 "2019-12-24T22:35:11Z")
Right wing Christians should get behind impeachment imo. Remove Trump and Pence becomes president. Pence actually wears his Christian faith on his sleeve so much so he can’t be in a meeting with a woman alone. He also has long wanted to overturn Roe vs Wade unlike Trump who was for abortion until he needed votes. And more importantly right wing Christians can stop disgracing themselves by defending a man who had an affair with a porn star while his wife was pregnant, brags about grabbing women by the pussy, walked in on underaged girls changing, friends with Epstein, discriminated against minorities in his business, stole money from a charity etc. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6614 "2019-12-24T22:43:46Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Al Gore is on Apple’s board. > > Nikki Haley is on Boeing’s board. > > People who think Hunter Biden’s seat on Burisma’s board needs investigation do not understand what a board is or what it does. Or even better, [Theranos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theranos), the corrupt fake blood testing startup swindle, now imploded. Some Theranos board members: - George Shultz, Reagan’s Secretary of State. - William Perry, Clinton’s Secretary of Defense - Henry Kissinger, Nixon’s Secretary of State - Bill Frist, former Republican Senate Majority Leader - James Mattis (!), Trump’s first Secretary of Defense Clearly all these people had no experience with blood testing and should be investigated. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6615 "2019-12-24T22:53:41Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Al Gore is on Apple’s board. > > Nikki Haley is on Boeing’s board. > > People who think Hunter Biden’s seat on Burisma’s board needs investigation do not understand what a board is or what it does. For the record, Apple and Boeing are American companies. > [@squeegee](#): > > Or even better, [Theranos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theranos), the corrupt fake blood testing startup swindle, now imploded. Also American. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6616 "2019-12-24T22:57:30Z")
So? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6617 "2019-12-24T23:06:20Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > For the record, Apple and Boeing are American companies. > > Also American. No shit. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6618 "2019-12-24T23:11:45Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > So? So, if I say that I want to send Bob to jail for running into a field and spree-stabbing live cows, pointing out that there are a whole bunch of people who professionally butcher cows for a living isn’t a defense. The (alleged) issue isn’t that Bob passed a sharp piece of metal through cow muscle, it’s that they were alive and weren’t his. Randomly grabbing some sightly similar matter that misses the entire context of the discussion is not a defense, it’s just random. The Ukraine allegations are that Burisma was being used as a way to _launder foreign money_ into the Biden coffer. Do you think that anyone is thinking that maybe Boeing exists purely as a corrupt means of smuggling American funds to American politicians? If not, then I fail to see how you think that they’re some form of debate fodder. And that’s not even getting to the discussion that alleging that the other side does corrupt things \* as well \* is not actually a defense nor an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6619 "2019-12-24T23:28:54Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The Ukraine allegations are that Burisma was being used as a way to _launder foreign money_ into the Biden coffer. Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6620 "2019-12-24T23:29:47Z")
**Sage Rat** , I appreciate your point. Indeed, this sort of nepotism is distasteful, and people clearly are willing to pay good money to give preference to the family members of powerful people to curry favor and gain an indirect benefit. It happens all the time in this world, and time and time again I see people rewarded for who they know rather than what they know. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The Ukraine allegations are that Burisma was being used as a way to _launder foreign money_ into the Biden coffer. This, of course, is lacking in factual support. Moreover, there’s no clear indication that Joe Biden ever took any unusual actions in response to this supposed payoff. At most, a Ukrainian company who had an incentive to demonstrate that it was operating in accord with the law hired some prominent names to demonstrate its commitment to this compliance; they were seeking legitimacy, and hired select people for that purpose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=330) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=332)