# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 335
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6681 "2020-01-01T03:13:42Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Bolding mine. > > I know you’re being semi-facetious, but this is the core message I think can win next year. “They promised to replace Obamacare with something better. What did you get? Nothing. Because the GOP is all talk.” I don’t think the Ds can win with a message about how the Rs failed. All the blame will be on the Ds and their obstructionist attitude. Trump has been blasting that message for a while now, calling the Ds and Pelosi “do nothing.” The failure of replacing Obamacare will be laid on the shoulders of John McCain, if nothing else. It won’t matter that they had 2 years to get everything done they wanted done. They didn’t get things done because they didn’t _want_ to have their legislation passed. If if passes and fails, they get blamed. If it never passes, they can talk all day long about how great it would have been if only they weren’t being blocked by \. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6682 "2020-01-01T03:22:58Z")
Well if it’s any consolation Trump is currently having a Twitter war with Iran that could very well turn into a real war. (And FFS Iran, if you had any part the crap going on in Iraq right now just settle down for a minute! Do you really want four more years of this asshole blaming you for everything? A Democrat would probably get the nuclear deal going again but Trump sure as hell won’t!) And in the event of a real war, I would imagine we won’t need to worry about impeachment because Trump will suspend everything that looks like a law and will start throwing people in jail. And he’s got just enough support to get away with it because which one of the craven coward Republicans is going to dare to say anything against him once he starts? It’s a worst case scenario for sure but desperate times… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6683 "2020-01-01T04:04:25Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I know you’re being semi-facetious I wasn’t even being a little facetious. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6684 "2020-01-01T04:09:28Z")
> [@tripthicket](#): > > Where are your intended audience going to hear about all this wonderful stuff? They’re all exclusively watching Fox News, and _that_ fine enterprise is going to share nothing of the kind with them. We gotta somehow get rid of Trump, the Republican party, _and_ that shameful propaganda machine. We’ll be lucky if we get one out of three. ☹ Who the fuck cares about helping making sure these things are heard by the people who watch Fox News? If they’re interested (and they will be) they’ll find a way to hear it or Fox will run news segments themselves, if only to try and mock their position. So Dems leverage _tha_t position for all it’s worth. And frankly, if they can’t fucking figure out how to get to people to listen to promises of riches and god-like powers, they sure as fuck aren’t getting their votes and they should maybe just give up and understand their place in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6685 "2020-01-02T14:55:08Z")
Good link here about Ukraine emails and what the Pentagon said about the aid > **[Exclusive: Unredacted Ukraine Documents Reveal Extent of Pentagon’s Legal...](https://www.justsecurity.org/67863/exclusive-unredacted-ukraine-documents-reveal-extent-of-pentagons-legal-concerns/)** > > Unredacted emails tell the behind-the-scenes story of the officials who had to carry out the president’s unexplained hold on Ukraine military aid. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6686 "2020-01-02T15:50:45Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Good link here about Ukraine emails and what the Pentagon said about the aid > > [Exclusive: Unredacted Ukraine Documents Reveal Extent of Pentagon’s Legal Concerns](https://www.justsecurity.org/67863/exclusive-unredacted-ukraine-documents-reveal-extent-of-pentagons-legal-concerns/) Just a bunch of deep state traitors. Trump knows more than any General. He told us this himself. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6687 "2020-01-02T16:13:16Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I don’t think the Ds can win with a message about how the Rs failed. All the blame will be on the Ds and their obstructionist attitude. Trump has been blasting that message for a while now, calling the Ds and Pelosi “do nothing.” The failure of replacing Obamacare will be laid on the shoulders of John McCain, if nothing else. > > It won’t matter that they had 2 years to get everything done they wanted done. They didn’t get things done because they didn’t _want_ to have their legislation passed. If if passes and fails, they get blamed. If it never passes, they can talk all day long about how great it would have been if only they weren’t being blocked by \. Trump blaming the Ds doesn’t necessarily equate with voters blaming the Ds. Sure, his base will buy it, but which message will resonate better with swing voters? [ol] [li]Trump and the GOP promised a lot that they couldn’t deliver.[/li][li]Trump and the GOP promised a lot which the Democrats stopped them from delivering.[/li][/ol] Keeping in mind that the impeachment is undermining GOP credibility and making Trump seem even battier with ever week it stretches on. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6688 "2020-01-02T17:14:48Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Trump blaming the Ds doesn’t necessarily equate with voters blaming the Ds. Sure, his base will buy it, but which message will resonate better with swing voters? > [ol] > [li]Trump and the GOP promised a lot that they couldn’t deliver.[/li][li]Trump and the GOP promised a lot which the Democrats stopped them from delivering.[/li][/ol] > Keeping in mind that the impeachment is undermining GOP credibility and making Trump seem even battier with ever week it stretches on. I don’t see the same thing you do with regard to the impeachment undermining GOP credibility. It just seems to be making both sides dig in deeper and isn’t making anyone move positions. It seems to me Trump has employed two strategies since 2015. They have both been largely effective. 1. Create a bogeyman that he can point to and get people to hate. Hillary and her emails was the one that got him elected. The caravan from the south was one that got him his wall funding. He even managed to get people to vilify Mueller, a man of indisputable integrity. 2. Blame your opponent for standing in your way for making huge progress, but still claim to be making progress despite them. In other words, leave the Ds in power to some degree, but not enough to actually hurt you. Then you can blame them for not being successful. He is trying to create a new bogeyman with the Biden stuff. Anyone that engages in any debate about Biden is only helping him, which is why I didn’t respond at all to UltraVires when he brought up Biden. It needs to be ignored. If you acknowledge the boogeyman in any way, even to argue against it, you only make it more real. He is blaming the Ds for the impeachment “nonsense” and calling it a witch hunt, so it is a bit of a mix between 1 and 2. He has managed to convince 60,000,000 people he is right. He tactics are surprisingly effective and continue to be so. He isn’t playing 8 dimensional chess, but he is doing an effective job at keeping his base (and maybe a little more) distracted and focused on the wrong things. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6689 "2020-01-02T17:30:57Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Trump blaming the Ds doesn’t necessarily equate with voters blaming the Ds. Sure, his base will buy it, but which message will resonate better with swing voters? > [ol] > [li]Trump and the GOP promised a lot that they couldn’t deliver.[/li][li]Trump and the GOP promised a lot which the Democrats stopped them from delivering.[/li][/ol] > Keeping in mind that the impeachment is undermining GOP credibility and making Trump seem even battier with ever week it stretches on. I should answer this more directly. I think the the second item is one that is more likely to occur to swing voters. I truly hope the swing voters will see the reality of the seriousness of what Trump tried to do with Ukraine, but I know which way I’d bet. I just get an uneasy feeling people are more likely to relate to the idea that failure is someone else’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6690 "2020-01-02T17:49:30Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I truly hope the swing voters will see the reality of the seriousness of what Trump tried to do with Ukraine, but I know which way I’d bet. I just get an uneasy feeling people are more likely to relate to the idea that failure is someone else’s fault. And I’m hoping a lot of them will say, _hey, we gave them a chance, and for all the noise and accusations they really didn’t deliver._ Weren’t we all taught at some point that blaming others for our own failures is weak sauce? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6691 "2020-01-02T18:16:34Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > … > It seems to me Trump has employed two strategies since 2015. They have both been largely effective. > > 1. Create a bogeyman that he can point to and get people to hate. Hillary and her emails was the one that got him elected. **The caravan from the south was one that got him his wall funding.** He even managed to get people to vilify Mueller, a man of indisputable integrity. … (bolding mine). Trump never got the wall funding he requested, which is why he had to steal funds from the Defense Department through a bogus “emergency” declaration. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6692 "2020-01-02T19:32:31Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Good link here about Ukraine emails and what the Pentagon said about the aid > > [Exclusive: Unredacted Ukraine Documents Reveal Extent of Pentagon’s Legal Concerns](https://www.justsecurity.org/67863/exclusive-unredacted-ukraine-documents-reveal-extent-of-pentagons-legal-concerns/) Unrelated, for the most part, to the link but while I was reading it I realized another point of inanity of the “just fighting corruption” defense that the White House has given. Let’s say that your neighbor Bill, has been refusing to mow his lawn. That annoys you and you keep telling him that he needs to mow his lawn. As it happens, Bill’s house catches on fire. He comes to you begging you to call the fire department. Which of the following is a response that a rational human being would return? a) Of course. b) Of course, but remember to keep it in mind that I helped you, next time I ask you to mow your lawn. c) I see that your lawn is 4 foot tall. I would rather see your house burn and your family die than help. Mow that puppy and then come back to me. No. Right now. Yes, go into the burning tool shed and get your lawn mower. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6693 "2020-01-02T19:51:46Z")
The judiciary is going to slap the hell out of the White House, on the basis of those redactions, btw. Complain all you like about FISA sloppiness, this is a clear, active, and malignant misuse of FOIA exemptions. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6694 "2020-01-02T20:04:41Z")
Apologies for the multiple posts. It looks like Schumer has started to explicitly require that Trump’s core members appear in the Senate trial. Now, it happens that the Constitution removes the President’s power of pardon under impeachment. He has now been impeached. Any acts of perjury or other criminal activities, if found guilty, even after the trial should be pardon-proof.\* Paul Manafort almost certainly, will be pardoned by Trump at the earliest opportunity. He has almost certainly had a part to play in the Ukraine nonsense. His communications are almost certainly being tracked. It would be very difficult for him to not commit perjury, talking about anything related to Ukraine, given the record of his communications that should exist. And, unlike the people in the White House, he is not a member of the Executive branch - he’s just a convict with the President’s phone number. He should really be called in. - I would expect. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6695 "2020-01-02T21:03:48Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > (bolding mine). Trump never got the wall funding he requested, which is why he had to steal funds from the Defense Department through a bogus “emergency” declaration. But he _did_ get the funding, even if he took back channels to get there. In short, he got the support he needed from his base by creating a bogyman that he could then use to justify actions that should have landed him in difficult times with Congress. By convincing his base of the dire need, he got the support and the Rs in Congress to go along with it. Bonus: He made the Ds look weak (to some!) on border security and obstructionist. Double Bonus: It made him a Washington outsider, unwilling to waiver and capitulate to the weak Dems. He showed himself as someone willing to go to extreme measures to protect us from the great unwashed. His playbook is 3 pages long. But really, really effective. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6696 "2020-01-02T21:10:32Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > But he _did_ get the funding, even if he took back channels to get there. In short, he got the support he needed from his base by creating a bogyman that he could then use to justify actions that should have landed him in difficult times with Congress. By convincing his base of the dire need, he got the support and the Rs in Congress to go along with it. > > Bonus: He made the Ds look weak (to some!) on border security and obstructionist. > Double Bonus: It made him a Washington outsider, unwilling to waiver and capitulate to the weak Dems. He showed himself as someone willing to go to extreme measures to protect us from the great unwashed. > > His playbook is 3 pages long. But really, really effective. He hasn’t, though, I’m happy to share. [Two judges have now blocked his use of Pentagon funds for his border wall](https://www.npr.org/2019/12/11/787284972/second-federal-judge-blocks-plan-to-use-pentagon-funds-for-border-wall). (NPR) > [@](#): > > A federal judge in California ruled Wednesday that the Trump administration may not divert $3.6 billion in Defense Department funds for construction of the wall on the southern border. > > The ruling by U.S. District Judge Haywood S. Gilliam Jr. is the second court decision in two days blocking the administration’s effort to reallocate money Congress has appropriated for other purposes. > > A federal judge in Texas on Tuesday, in a separate case, ruled that the administration may not use an emergency proclamation to divert funds from military construction projects. U.S. District Judge David Briones issued a permanent injunction blocking the administration’s use of those funds for the border wall project. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6697 "2020-01-02T21:59:16Z")
Trump got his imaginary wall funding?? News to me. So how many pesos did Mexico send us? ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6698 "2020-01-02T23:40:47Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > He hasn’t, though, I’m happy to share. [Two judges have now blocked his use of Pentagon funds for his border wall](https://www.npr.org/2019/12/11/787284972/second-federal-judge-blocks-plan-to-use-pentagon-funds-for-border-wall). (NPR) I thought it was a done deal he was able to use the emergency declaration to get the funds. Now I’m all kinds of confused. From your cite there was a July decision by the supreme court that blocked an earlier injunction, allowing construction to begin. That was $2.5 billion worth. I’m not sure where all this puts the funds from the emergency declaration. Is all or part of the money now blocked? The funds listed are $3.6 billion and $2.5 billion. Are they from the same source? Based on some other sources, it looks like the original diversion was for $6.1 billion, so it would seem he got at least part of what he wanted. Or do I not have that right? ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6699 "2020-01-02T23:43:21Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Trump got his imaginary wall funding?? News to me. So how many pesos did Mexico send us? I got a five centavo coin. That’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/6700 "2020-01-03T00:20:11Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Good link here about Ukraine emails and what the Pentagon said about the aid > > [Exclusive: Unredacted Ukraine Documents Reveal Extent of Pentagon’s Legal Concerns](https://www.justsecurity.org/67863/exclusive-unredacted-ukraine-documents-reveal-extent-of-pentagons-legal-concerns/) That’s quite the scoop, thanks. I’ve been thinking impoundment was the strongest argument for some time now, but… it doesn’t seem to have made it into an article of impeachment. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=334) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=336)