# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/681 "2019-09-26T18:42:23Z")
If Trump shoots someone on 5th Ave, certain media outlets are going to run with headlines like: “Democrat seen in area of Trump disturbance in New York” and “What did Biden know? Questions are being asked.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/682 "2019-09-26T18:43:32Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I really wish someone would point out the exact “shady shit”. Truly I do. Because I haven’t seen shit. Maybe you? I think Dinsdale did an admirable job of pointing it out (#670). I agree with Thing Fish (#676) that no proof of a crime has been definitively established yet, but I think it needs to be investigated, thoroughly. There’s already a discrepancy between Joe and Hunter about how many times they discussed Hunter’s Ukrainian business dealings. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/683 "2019-09-26T18:45:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Probably not. It looks like there’s some shady shit that went on with the Biden boys in Ukraine, and I think it should be investigated thoroughly (you guys do support investigations, right?). I don’t mind President Trump using his position to make sure the truth is brought to light. > > Yes, there are plenty of things that I could imagine that would make me support this impeachment. Here are some examples: earlier on in this thread, President Trump’s request to Ukraine was characterized as a request “[to manufacture dirt](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21879580#post21879580)” on Biden. There were various other posts that suggested Trump had asked Ukraine to make stuff up / lie about Biden’s Ukranian activities. I don’t see any evidence to support those claims, but if it became clear that he had asked them “to manufacture dirt” rather than just investigate and find the truth of the matter, I would support impeachment. > > Likewise, there have been a long-running series of accusations against President Trump that he’s doing Russia’s bidding / controlled by Putin / etc. They are, as of now, unsubstantiated. If, however, it became clear that these accusations were in fact correct, I would support impeachment and removal from office. > > I’m sure there are a ton of other scenarios that would find me supporting his impeachment, but I find it helpful to put it in terms of things you guys have claimed, without proof. If you could prove some of those things, then you’d really have something. > > Also, even though I think the question is moronic, I’ll go ahead and answer it: Of course he’s “fallible” and makes mistakes. Good post. However the sentence “I don’t mind President Trump using his position to make sure the truth is brought to light.” leads me to believe that you just don’t get it. Trump, truth, and light are don’t belong in the same sentence. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/684 "2019-09-26T18:46:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > … Besides, the motivation for the investigation appears to be entirely political. … Shoe’s on the other foot now. That’s how Republicans feel about virtually all the investigations the dems have been calling for / pursuing for the past couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/685 "2019-09-26T18:50:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m not surprised that some Trump supporters are fine with trading foreign aid money for foreign political aid meant to harm Trump’s political rivals… but it’s a teeny-tiny surprise that they’ll admit it so readily. They have learned that there is no consequence in doing so, and they are reveling in that knowledge. Once you dispose of soul and shame, anything short of actual punishment is none of their concern. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/686 "2019-09-26T18:50:29Z")
Let me throw this out there and see what people think. I’ve mentioned it once, but didn’t get much of a response. Joe Biden was essentially Obama’s proxy vis a vis Ukraine. He had, as I understand it, a certain amount of autonomy there, but ultimately was there to carry out Obama’s policies. So in brief, what the fuck would Obama care about Hunter Biden, and the fact that his chances of profiting off of his Dad’s name might be threatened unless he, Obama, took some kind of action? Why would Obama risk his reputation in this way? I am acutely aware that the whole story is nuts, and doesn’t really deserve talking about. But it seems to me at least once, some pundit on CNN or MSNBC or wherever, would raise this question. Is this a reasonable thing to expect? Am I missing something here? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/687 "2019-09-26T18:50:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Probably not. It looks like there’s some shady shit that went on with the Biden boys in Ukraine, and I think it should be investigated thoroughly (you guys do support investigations, right?). I don’t mind President Trump using his position to make sure the truth is brought to light. Whatever shady shit the Biden boys may or may not have been up to, it’s to laugh to think that this call had anything to do with that. No, whatever small potatoes shenanigans you think should be investigated sound like a fine job for some low level employee at the state department. None of these things should happen: 1. Trump himself should not be involved, because of the potential conflict of interest. Ethics 101. 2. Trump should not be using his limited personal time for legitimate diplomacy on such a trivial case. 3. Trump himself should not be withholding congressional mandated financial aid in order to force action from a foreign government on a minor corruption case. 4. Trump should not be directing the AG of the United-fricking-States to make this a priority, when there are much more pressing domestic issues on his plate. 5. Trump should not be involving his _personal lawyer_! Can I repeat this one enough? Like, what the fuck, mate? How are you defending this? This is why the Biden angle is a distraction, and a pathetic one at that. For one, it ignores the actual truth, which is that Trump really doesn’t give 2 shits about Ukranian corruption and was clearly doing this for personal benefit. And for two, it would only replace criminal behavior with criminal incompetence as a public servant and the President of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/688 "2019-09-26T18:50:41Z")
How about applying some pressure on the Kenyan government to “investigate” Obama’s fake birth certificate? I’m sure there is some financial aid package that could be held up until they dig into this very important scandal. I’ve heard talk about Nancy Pelosi being involved in some kind of scheme in the middle east. People are talking about it. Perhaps Trump could hold up military aid to Israel and then call up Netanyahu to let him know that the US does a lot for Israel and does not get a lot back. Oh, and it would be great if Netanyahu could do Trump a favor, and look into these Pelosi allegations that everyone is talking about… Just do a really, REALLY thorough investigation. These would be OK, because the president would just be doing his duty, and following up on serious matters that need investigating. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/689 "2019-09-26T18:51:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Shoe’s on the other foot now. That’s how Republicans feel about virtually all the investigations the dems have been calling for / pursuing for the past couple of years. Oversight of the Executive branch is the Constitutional duty of the Legislative branch. How Republicans “feel” about that is completely irrelevant. Did you have these same concerns about all of the investigations into Obama during his 8 years? (which yielded nothing I might add) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/690 "2019-09-26T18:52:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > earlier on in this thread, President Trump’s request to Ukraine was characterized as a request “[to manufacture dirt](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21879580#post21879580)” on Biden. There were various other posts that suggested Trump had asked Ukraine to make stuff up / lie about Biden’s Ukranian activities. I don’t see any evidence to support those claims, but if it became clear that he had asked them “to manufacture dirt” rather than just investigate and find the truth of the matter, I would support impeachment. [Manufacturing dirt is straight out of the Trump Campaign playbook](https://www.axios.com/inside-the-trump-campaigns-plan-of-attack-03364e8d-99ea-418b-b6e7-510c117dc0bf.html): > [@](#): > > The RNC is “going to make whoever the nominee is radioactive well before they get the nomination,” a former campaign official told Axios. “That’s Trump’s strategy. Stay at 45-46% [in the polls] and just make the other guy radioactive.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/691 "2019-09-26T18:52:51Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > And if you’re Trump, you don’t bring your concerns to the FBI. You wait until you have some leverage, use it against Ukraine, and see if they’ll look into it instead. And keep it on the down low, OK? No one’s keeping anything “on the down low”. The Bidens’ shady Ukrainian dealings have been known for months. They’ve been discussed in some major media outlets. In the fucking “transcript”, Zelenskyy said “I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you.” President Trump’s next word was “Good”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/692 "2019-09-26T18:54:01Z")
The White House kept the records of this call, and other calls they felt might be damaging to Trump, “on the down low” (i.e. improperly filing them in a classified server meant to house national-security related documents), according to the whistle-blower complaint. It doesn’t take much thought to realize why they might have done this, if the complaint is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/693 "2019-09-26T18:55:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think Dinsdale did an admirable job of pointing it out (#670). I agree with Thing Fish (#676) that no proof of a crime has been definitively established yet, but I think it needs to be investigated, thoroughly. There’s already a discrepancy between Joe and Hunter about how many times they discussed Hunter’s Ukrainian business dealings. Hunter Biden should not have put himself in a possible conflict of interest like this re his father. No doubt. If that alone is the “shady shit” you are referring to, fine. The implication seems that there was more than this. But let’s be real. This kind of thing happens all the time. It’s not illegal to profit off of your name. So, got anything else? Any other reason that an investigation should happen? That you are not just calling for a fishing expedition? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/694 "2019-09-26T18:59:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It looks like there’s some shady shit that went on with the Biden boys in Ukraine Moderator’s Voice: There isn’t. > [@](#): > > and I think it should be investigated thoroughly (you guys do support investigations, right?) Moderator’s Voice: [It has](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/23/20879611/joe-biden-hunter-biden-ukraine-corruption-prosecutor-burisma-donald-trump-whistleblower-complaint). But even if they weren’t, the appropriate way to handle this is to ask the FBI to investigate. Not to ask the Ukraine to do anything about it even if he didn’t happen to be lording over hundreds of millions of dollars. Or send his private lawyer and the US Attorney General to work with them. Or to ask them to look into [bonkers conspiracy theories](https://www.thedailybeast.com/crowdstrike-the-truth-about-trumps-insane-ukraine-server-conspiracy) for that matter. Hell, that was what got Chuck Todd to at least temporarily override his penchant for bothsiderism when [he took Sen. John Kennedy to task](https://www.thedailybeast.com/chuck-todd-to-gop-sen-john-kennedy-dont-gaslight-us-on-ukraine-biden): > [@](#): > > “It’s hard to believe the concern about Hunter Biden by some of these folks making this case,” Todd responded. “If they were so serious about this, I’m trying to figure out why nobody from the FBI has been contacted. Not a single person.” > > “I don’t understand why Rudy Giuliani thinks it’s better to investigate an American by outsourcing it to a country that apparently they also didn’t trust,” the Meet the Press host added. “Do you see why I’m skeptical that the Hunter Biden stuff is really that serious? If they were serious about it, you go to the FBI, you don’t go to an oligarch in Ukraine.” ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/695 "2019-09-26T19:01:49Z")
HD #672, If the government of the US has information that requires an investigation of the Biden family then the appropriate branch of the government should do so. That is very different than a US President trading our foreign aid $$$ to slander a political opponent. And, Trump did not ask that the Ukraine invent anything. All Zelensky would have to do is say he is opening an investigation of Biden based on an alleged offense that was previously invented by a political opponent of Zelensky. The President has admitted to the offense and provided written evidence to back it up. He offered to trade US aid for the reopening of a bogus investigation of a political opponent. This is all covered in the President’s transcript and the whistleblower’s complaint. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/696 "2019-09-26T19:07:04Z")
That is indeed a good point. If anyone in government thought that the Bidens were breaking the law, then the proper thing to do would be to refer it to US law enforcement agencies to investigate. AFAICT, this hasn’t been done (or if it’s been done, nothing has been found and/or reported). On the other hand, if one was only interested in political damage to a rival, then law enforcement agencies would be useless (barring actual illegal activity). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/697 "2019-09-26T19:07:42Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Hunter Biden should not have put himself in a possible conflict of interest like this re his father. No doubt. If that alone is the “shady shit” you are referring to, fine. The implication seems that there was more than this. But let’s be real. This kind of thing happens all the time. It’s not illegal to profit off of your name. So, got anything else? Any other reason that an investigation should happen? That you are not just calling for a fishing expedition? Yes, Joe Biden pushed _HARD_ for the firing of the prosecutor overseeing the investigation of his son’s company. “If true”, that makes it an official act of corruption on Joe Biden’s part. We should investigate to let the truth of the matter come to light. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/698 "2019-09-26T19:08:42Z")
Look, while I appreciate that many here are looking for **HurricaneDitka** to have a “come to Jesus” moment, there is zero way this happens. He is convinced that Trump can do no wrong, and even an admission from Trump that he did do wrong is met with contortions. And pinning him down on what it would take is useless - he’ll just move goalposts or say “that’s not what happened” just as he can deny what actually happened in that phone call that Trump admitted to doing. This thread will be great for sharing updates on the impeachment. But I humbly suggest that we not waste our time trying to get HurricaneDitka to believe anything and spend even less time caring when he inevitably doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/699 "2019-09-26T19:11:04Z")
The talk of impeachment is raising a lot of money for the D’s and R’s alike: > **[Trump's re-election campaign apparently had a big donation spike following...](https://theweek.com/speedreads/867771/trumps-reelection-campaign-apparently-big-donation-spike-following-impeachment-announcement)** ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/700 "2019-09-26T19:12:21Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Hell, that was what got Chuck Todd to at least temporarily override his penchant for bothsiderism when [he took Sen. John Kennedy to task](https://www.thedailybeast.com/chuck-todd-to-gop-sen-john-kennedy-dont-gaslight-us-on-ukraine-biden): I walked in on the end of that and couldn’t believe my ears, that Todd was actually standing up to someone for once. The surprise wore off when I realized he was on MSNBC and not “Meet the Press”, where he always has to keep in mind his audience doesn’t consist of just liberals and progressives. I’ll still watch MtP, but it can get pretty infuriating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=36)